EU Referendum

[Red C220]

I wouldn't be so sure. There is a lot of resentment regarding the lies told to get the result. And quite a few who now regret voting leave.

On this I'm very sure.

It would be a catastrophic decision for democracy, suicidal for the political party that backed/ran with it and lead to level of civil unrest that would be unprecedented.

It's not going to happen. The result stands, it is what it is and we have to deal with it now. Like it or not.

 

[Bellow]

On this I'm very sure.

It would be a catastrophic decision for democracy, suicidal for the political party that backed/ran with it and lead to level of civil unrest that would be unprecedented.

It's not going to happen. The result stands, it is what it is and we have to deal with it now. Like it or not.

A general election and parties taking the majority of seats on an anti A50 ticket and getting that mandate. Where's the political suicide in getting elected?

 

[scumbag]

The result stands, it is what it is and we have to deal with it now. Like it or not.

I was not making the point about a new referendum.

parliament has to debate the result and won't do so until new leaders are in place.

Therefore the ability to get the population to keep on with it's political will and interest, can be utilised now.


As however stated, if there was a very large vote for a new party, which was standing on the campaign to reverse the result, then it ceases to become an issue as the will of the people has been used to give the politicians the mandate to do so.

my view is that a General election should be called and I would expect an even larger resounding vote to get out and get out quick will arrive. nailing those who think it is teetering on the edge of change.

I could be wrong.


but none of what I said is arguing for a 2nd EU Ref. It is merely pointing out that the general malaise of politics can be hung on the back of this to get those disinterested back into it.


of they could bang on about the NHS-Schools-speeding-tax-tax rises-----yawn etc.

 

[Red C220]

A general election and parties taking the majority of seats on an anti A50 ticket and getting that mandate. Where's the political suicide in getting elected?

They simply wouldn't get elected. As I mentioned above. If the referendum was counted on the same basis as a general election the result was 68.8% leave 31.2% remain.

You believe that many people would change their mind? Seriously?

The idea that leave is not going happen, get reversed or be successfully challenged, either legally or by a back door election is looking delusional.

Really, you can't start challenging the outcome of events of this nature because both sides told some porkies. You'd get a challenge to every general election or referendum in the future by whatever side didn't like the outcome. It's not going to happen.

 

[markjay]

Labour motion on EU migrants 'right to remain' passes Commons vote | UK news | The Guardian

 

[fab1975]

They simply wouldn't get elected. As I mentioned above. If the referendum was counted on the same basis as a general election the result was 68.8% leave 31.2% remain.

You believe that many people would change their mind? Seriously?

You are assuming that 100% of the voters in a GE would therefore decide their vote exclusively on the basis on each candidate's position on Brexit.

That might be true for very passionate voters for which Brexit / Bremain was the main issue, but I guess that for many others (including people who did not even bother to vote in the referendum) different issues would matter much more.

Last but not least... yes, maybe 2% or more of the voters (the ones who could have made a difference on 23rd June) might have already changed their minds based on the actual outcome of the Brexit referendum, which is a bit chaotic, with all the due respect.

 

[fab1975]

Labour motion on EU migrants 'right to remain' passes Commons vote | UK news | The Guardian

This is good news for people like me, but the woman who most likely will be prime minister (as well as the current foreign affairs secretary) has already stated in very unequivocal terms that the destiny of 3M "EU migrants" like myself will be a matter of negotiation with the EU.

As a matter of fact, I will be a bargaining chip on the negotiation table, which to some extent is understandable, given that objectively the UK will not have the upper hand and therefore will need to make the best possible use of all the weapons available.

Now I understand what it means to be "suitably looked after" as it has been previously suggested on this thread ;-)
It goes without saying that I will reduce any non essential spending and investments in the UK until my situation is clear.
Since not all of us are waiting at tables or picking strawberries for a living (no disrespect), I guess we will not be boosting the economy for a while, at least until the dust settles.

 

[markjay]

Labour motion on EU migrants 'right to remain' passes Commons vote | UK news | The Guardian

The argument against it is that the UK are giving away a trump card before the negotiations even started - i.e. this vote should have been passed only after the EU committed to reciprocating by similarly granting UK citizens who are currently living in he EU the right to remain.

The other argument is that this should apply only to EU citizens who arrived in the UK before 23rd June.... or we'll see a influx of migrants arriving in the UK in the weeks and months ahead to ensure they are here before the legislation is finalised.

Said that, personally I agree with this motion - we had a few worried members of staff who are EU nationals asking if they will be able to stay here after Brexit - obviously I cant say, but at least this motion will provide them some reassurance.

 

[Deleted96908]

Porsche are an excellent example, only a few years ago Porsche made more money in one 12 month trading period from Hedge fund trading than they did from manufacturing and selling cars, and at an average profit of £16,000 per vehicle sold (the highest in the industry) that takes some doing.

You forgot to mention that Porsche then misread the markets, including its leveraged buyout of VW - which then went on, thanks to the intervention of Merkel, to consume Porsche whole.

Sequence of events here.

Porsche and VW: What the Hell Happened?

 

[Red C220]

You forgot to mention that Porsche then misread the markets, including its leveraged buyout of VW - which then went on, thanks to the intervention of Merkel, to consume Porsche whole.

Sequence of events here.

Porsche and VW: What the Hell Happened?

You've got to admit it was a bold play though and showed every sign of coming off had it not been for the US triggered global credit crunch. Which only a very small handful of people saw coming.

 

[Deleted96908]

You've got to admit it was a bold play though and showed every sign of coming off had it not been for the US triggered global credit crunch. Which only a very small handful of people saw coming.

I followed their exploits at the time. Folks could see they were massively over exposed at the outset - even Autocar was giving weekly updates. I think Merkel's play was key. Something of a dark horse.

 

[Bellow]

You believe that many people would change their mind? Seriously?

It is entirely possible.
A poll showed 7% regretted voting leave vs 3% who regretted voting remain. Only a poll I know but one done on 1st July.
Many are known to have voted leave as they didn't expect leave to win. They merely wanted a 'protest' vote. Now the result is here and the consequences are being felt, there is regret by many. Many are hosed off now they realise the extent to which they were lied.

Really, you can't start challenging the outcome of events of this nature because both sides told some porkies. You'd get a challenge to every general election or referendum in the future by whatever side didn't like the outcome. It's not going to happen.

Smart people see through lies. That the leave campaign relied so heavily on lies draws into question just how smart the decision was.

 

[grober]

Claims have surfaced that Andrea Leadson has "massaged " her CV in order to boost the gravitas of her claim to leadership. Won't obviously effect the folks that see her as the " true brexit candidate" and will vote for her as an almost pavlovian response of course . Or perhaps it was the £800,000 donation to the conservative party funds from her brother who reportedly is a "banker" in the channel islands that did the trick? Together with her pronouncement of a mere 3 years ago that "brexit would be a disaster for the UK" a clearer picture of NEW KID ON THE BLOCK Miz Leadson begins to emerge. Andrea Leadsom publishes CV amid claims over career history - BBC News

 

[Yugguy]

Leavers are stupid.

sigh.

 

[markjay]

....Smart people see through lies. That the leave campaign relied so heavily on lies draws into question just how smart the decision was.

Bellow, sadly porkies-telling was not the preserve of the Leave campaign... which to my mind actually makes things worse.

I believe that large parts of the 17m Out voters, and of the 16m In voters, voted without fully understanding the issues involved.

Others most likely voted based on personal interests, or made an emotional vote.

Some perhaps did fully grasp the implications of either choice. But in my estimate these were a minority of voters.

To say that we are leaving 'because this is what the British public wants' is incorrect, to say the least.... we are leaving because this is how the vote went on the day. It might have gone the other way on another day. Or we could have equally tossed a coin for it.

 

[markjay]

...irresponsible. That's the word I would use for letting a referendum decide the faith of a nation.

 

[Bellow]

sigh.

Why have you quoted me as saying something I did not say?

 

[scumbag]

Strikes me this thread has run it's course now.

I have concluded several things from it.

1. the people who voted to leave are stupid and only believed lies (Which of course is insulting to those who voted to leave)
2. the people who voted to leave now want to change their minds (which is of course insulting to those who voted to leave)
3.Those who voted to remain are not happy with the result and want it to be changed (which is not just insulting to those who voted to leave, but also to those who voted remain)
4. The "blame" for this result is those who did not vote (which is insulting to those who did not vote, and all those who did on both sides)
5. Boris Johnson led the brexiteers and then ran away. (which is insulting to those who voted to leave not to mention all the other brexit camp supporters)
6. Democracy won. (Which is insulting, and rightfully so, to all the conspiracy supporters)
7. the vast minority of a few vocal remain supporters are right and the remaining population of accepting and quiet remain supporters, those who voted to leave, those who did not vote and the rest of the country is wrong
8. Scotland, London, and other areas where the votes supporting remain, think they are no longer in the UK and want to be treated differently to the wrong ones who voted wrongly. Fair is fair, as long as it doesn't effect me. (Which is clearly not at all insulting to their lack of ability to get their message across is it? Blame the others, not me!)
9. This thread is now showing those who support one side, against those who support the other and will start to be political soon enough.
10. Jeremy Corbyn. (Insulting to all those who are not Jeremy Corbyn)


I vote for closure now. Lets get back to cars. My BMW needs a service!!

 

[Red C220]

Claims have surfaced that Andrea Leadson has "massaged " her CV in order to boost the gravitas of her claim to leadership. Won't obviously effect the folks that see her as the " true brexit candidate" and will vote for her as an almost pavlovian response of course . Or perhaps it was the £800,000 donation to the conservative party funds from her brother who reportedly is a "banker" in the channel islands that did the trick? Together with her pronouncement of a mere 3 years ago that "brexit would be a disaster for the UK" a clearer picture of NEW KID ON THE BLOCK Miz Leadson begins to emerge. Andrea Leadsom publishes CV amid claims over career history - BBC News

The public aren't voting for anyone in the current PM elections. This is being decided initially by MP's whittling it down to two runners then membership of the Conservative party voting on those two.

 

[Red C220]

Strikes me this thread has run it's course now.

I have concluded several things from it.

1. the people who voted to leave are stupid and only believed lies (Which of course is insulting to those who voted to leave)
2. the people who voted to leave now want to change their minds (which is of course insulting to those who voted to leave)
3.Those who voted to remain are not happy with the result and want it to be changed (which is not just insulting to those who voted to leave, but also to those who voted remain)
4. The "blame" for this result is those who did not vote (which is insulting to those who did not vote, and all those who did on both sides)
5. Boris Johnson led the brexiteers and then ran away. (which is insulting to those who voted to leave not to mention all the other brexit camp supporters)
6. Democracy won. (Which is insulting, and rightfully so, to all the conspiracy supporters)
7. the vast minority of a few vocal remain supporters are right and the remaining population of accepting and quiet remain supporters, those who voted to leave, those who did not vote and the rest of the country is wrong
8. Scotland, London, and other areas where the votes supporting remain, think they are no longer in the UK and want to be treated differently to the wrong ones who voted wrongly. Fair is fair, as long as it doesn't effect me. (Which is clearly not at all insulting to their lack of ability to get their message across is it? Blame the others, not me!)
9. This thread is now showing those who support one side, against those who support the other and will start to be political soon enough.
10. Jeremy Corbyn. (Insulting to all those who are not Jeremy Corbyn)


I vote for closure now. Lets get back to cars. My BMW needs a service!!

A couple of correctionss:-

5/ There's an enourmous difference between "walking away" and being undermined by your fellow MP's leaving you no support. It seems to me he had every intention of standing up to the plate but the prospect of the big gig to some of the others was obviously too tempting.

9/ It started political and continued all the way through.

All the other points I pretty much agree with.