Europe

[markjay]

Today in The Telegraph:

Eurozone debt crisis: Europe’s nations must break free from the Brussels straitjacket - Telegraph

'The current model is, however, only half of the problem. Besides the difficulties resulting from integration, there is a huge problem with Europe’s social market economy. It prefers policy based on income redistribution instead of productive activities. It prefers leisure, free time, and long holidays to hard work. It prefers consumption to investment, debt to savings, and security to risk-taking. It prefers social democratism to capitalism.'
...
'We should also stop the constantly expanding green legislation. The Greens must be prevented from taking over much of our economy under the banner of such flawed ideas as the global warming doctrine.'
...
'And we should get rid of the centralisation, harmonisation and standardisation of the European continent and start decentralising, deregulating and desubsidising our society and economy.
...
'Václav Klaus is President of the Czech Republic.'


Pretty strong and certainly controversial.... but it's not so much the actual content that struck me, it is the fact that strong language usually comes from those in opposition or in the margins, but rarely from a European serving head of state.

Most politicians only make it into government once they stop being outspoken and move their (spoken) views towards the centre to attract as many voters as possible.

Please keep any comments directed words Europe - any domestic political matters mentioned here will no doubt see this thread closed.

 

[Harrythedog]

I find it hard to disagree on most of his points. IMO the EU thought it could bring third world economies into the "Premier League" simply by throwing money at them unfortunately they didn't take into account the cultures of some of these countries where the populations were looking after themselves and happy with their lot regardless of how big or small it was. The thought of contributing to their own country was not an option let alone contributing to a united Europe.

 

[Nasco12]

Vaclav Klaus has a track record for speaking his mind.

 

[WesLangdon]

Europe has to accept that the US Banks have killed the Euro; GoldmanSachs's brilliant long term strategy of saddling Greece with fraudulent loans has waved its magic and coupled with again US provoked banking crisis has finished the project. The Southern European countries need to leave the Euro. Germany, Austria, Netherlands, and Luxembourg should definitely stay; France Ireland and Belgium should consider their options and maybe leave too.

 

[davethemus]

I always felt the EU was, at it's heart a racist construct. Europe is a 'white' continent, the majority of EU citizeans are white I'm sure. If you're lucky enough to be born in the EU travel is very easy and you can go from country to country.

However, if you come from the parts of the world where the majority are non-white it is much more difficult to travel around. Also, if you're from Canada, the US or Austrailia then in relative terms it is easy to travel around the Euro zone.

 

[C240Sport97]

Europe has to accept that the US Banks have killed the Euro

???????

 

[Dryce]

I always felt the EU was, at it's heart a racist construct.

Nonsense.

However, if you come from the parts of the world where the majority are non-white it is much more difficult to travel around. Also, if you're from Canada, the US or Austrailia then in relative terms it is easy to travel around the Euro zone.

Half my family is non-white and non-British (and non-EU).

We all trundle about inside the EU just fine.

IME most travel problems are to do with the economics and politics of where you come from vs where you are goingb to.

 

[davethemus]

IME most travel problems are to do with the economics and politics of where you come from vs where you are goingb to.

Is it possible the economics and politics are latently racist?

Look at who is the power house, economically and politically, in Europe.

 

[WesLangdon]

???????

The Euro had the potential to rival the $ as the worlds reserve currency, this is something that the US and its banks did not want; and as a consequence they have been waging economic war on the Euro zone, the fraudulent loans, the ratings agency manipulations, both designed to harm and undermine the Euro.

 

[markjay]

If by 'racists' you mean nationalist, then I tend to agree.

However most people understand racism as related to race. In that sense, your example does not work:

Non-whites - e.g. Black/Asian/Muslims etc - holding EU passports have no issues whatsoever travelling around Europe.

White people from 'undesirable' countries - mainly East European countries that are still outside the EU, and some South American countries - will find it difficult to travel around Europe.

If there is any (partial) correlation between race and EU access, it because most whites happen to live in the US and Europe, while large parts of the developing world consist of Asia and Africa where few whites live. But this is more of an unintended consequence than 'by design'.

 

[Dryce]

Is it possible the economics and politics are latently racist?

Look at who is the power house, economically and politically, in Europe.

Still don't get it.

 

[stevieb15]

The Euro had the potential to rival the $ as the worlds reserve currency, this is something that the US and its banks did not want; and as a consequence they have been waging economic war on the Euro zone, the fraudulent loans, the ratings agency manipulations, both designed to harm and undermine the Euro.

Rubbish
The Euro failed because virtually none of the constituent nations have ever matched the financial and economic criteria for membership, including Germany.
It's a false currency more about federalistic European egos than economic good sense.
When I was doing a lot of business in Eire in late 90s one of my customers over there commented on the lunacy of his nation with inflation running at 11% having access to funds at 2.5% interest rates after they joined the Euro.
I very much doubt that dear old Derry realised quite how bad it was going to be!!

 

[Dryce]

The Euro had the potential to rival the $ as the worlds reserve currency, this is something that the US and its banks did not want; and as a consequence they have been waging economic war on the Euro zone, the fraudulent loans, the ratings agency manipulations, both designed to harm and undermine the Euro.

Ahhhhhhh. A conspiracy theory.

So it must be true.

 

[davethemus]

Still don't get it.

Ze Germans

 

[davethemus]

If by 'racists' you mean nationalist, then I tend to agree.

However most people understand racism as related to race. In that sense, your example does not work:

Non-whites - e.g. Black/Asian/Muslims etc - holding EU passports have no issues whatsoever travelling around Europe.

White people from 'undesirable' countries - mainly East European countries that are still outside the EU, and some South American countries - will find it difficult to travel around Europe.

If there is any (partial) correlation between race and EU access, it because most whites happen to live in the US and Europe, while large parts of the developing world consist of Asia and Africa where few whites live. But this is more of an unintended consequences than 'by design'.

I'm at my work just now so it's difficult to convey what I want to in between tasks.

You're right, it is an 'unintended consequence', the point I was trying to was along those lines, I feel there is sometimes subtle discrimination against people outside the EU. The only countries that aren't affected by this are Australia, the US and Canada. I know that there are political reasons for this, not racist reasons. It just appears to be a bit racist, if that makes sense?!

 

[WesLangdon]

Rubbish
The Euro failed because virtually none of the constituent nations have ever matched the financial and economic criteria for membership, including Germany.

If you read my post properly I agreed with that, though I would argue some rather than "virtually none," nevertheless it did have the potential top replace the $ as a reserve currency and who knows but for the 2008 crash it might have gone on to do just that.

 

[WesLangdon]

If by 'racists' you mean nationalist, then I tend to agree.

However most people understand racism as related to race. In that sense, your example does not work:

Non-whites - e.g. Black/Asian/Muslims etc - holding EU passports have no issues whatsoever travelling around Europe.

White people from 'undesirable' countries - mainly East European countries that are still outside the EU, and some South American countries - will find it difficult to travel around Europe.

If there is any (partial) correlation between race and EU access, it because most whites happen to live in the US and Europe, while large parts of the developing world consist of Asia and Africa where few whites live. But this is more of an unintended consequence than 'by design'.

My observations would lead me to think that South Americans have little trouble visiting Iberia as they have common culture and language

 

[grober]

Ahhhhhhh. A conspiracy theory.

So it must be true.

You are so right. Its a gross slur against the USA. When have they ever covertly interfered with the internal affairs of any any sovereign country when they felt it was necessary to their interests? Egypt never, Iraq never, Saudi Arabia never, Chile never, Greece never, Vietnam never , Cuba never, Cambodia never, Turkey never, Afghanistan never. As their "ostensible" ally this often works to our advantage but sometimes it may not. Deliberate or otherwise [ I favour the later] - just a massive domestic ponzi scheme sold to the rest of the world by the US finance houses by hiding toxic subprime mortgage debt in complex labyrinthine financial "packages " the present instability in the European banking sector almost certainly had its origins in the States.

 

[mejermy]

Agreed the smart operators in US did a great job of selling junk products to banks eleswhere, but what about the monkeys ('professional financial experts') who bought these packaged junk loans? If someone is daft enough to buy rubbish there will always be those who will queue up to sell it to them. I have heard the whole thing began when Clinton (he, not she) insisted that bad credit risks (read certain minorities) were being discriminated against when not offered similar deals to better risks and required the banks to address this. No doubt bought him a few votes, but financial madness.

 

[davethemus]

Agreed the smart operators in US did a great job of selling junk products to banks eleswhere, but what about the monkeys ('professional financial experts') who bought these packaged junk loans? If someone is daft enough to buy rubbish there will always be those who will queue up to sell it to them. I have heard the whole thing began when Clinton (he, not she) insisted that bad credit risks (read certain minorities) were being discriminated against when not offered similar deals to better risks and required the banks to address this. No doubt bought him a few votes, but financial madness.

a little bit of knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing...