Europe

[WesLangdon]

Building houses is cheaper than paying housing benefit, rent levels are lower and does have a material result, featherbedding the buy to let market just featherbeds the private rented sector. Wikipeadia is problematic for people alive today who constantly manipulate the information posted, but otherwise its great and its sources are listed, but being rude generally shows that a person has lost the argument.

 

[Dryce]

Building houses is cheaper than paying housing benefit, rent levels are lower and does have a material result, featherbedding the buy to let market just featherbeds the private rented sector.

The rent levels were traditionally lower because council housing was *subsidised*. Rate payers and tax payers were basically topping it up the operational costs.

Now in principle that may be acceptable - after all we pay out loads of different benefits - but council housing isn't properly means tested.

Moreover from a social point of view extensive council housing developments can form enclaves or ghettoes. That has separate issue with regard to social mobility.

So while I agree that this is better (preferable?) approach than QE I'm not convinced that it is a significantly better option.

 

[davethemus]

I'd have let the bloody lot fail instead of propping up these parasites with tax payers hard earned, as soon as the banks saw the government was willing to bail them out they all took advantage, whether a Plan B would have worked just as well or not.

Here Here!

It flies in the face of the free market, propping up these financial black holes.

If we had let these banks fail then we would be through the worst just now, look at Iceland.

 

[WesLangdon]

Apparantly servicing the Debt costs the same as defence spending, so if we scrapped defence we could double our debt...just a happy thought:bannana:

see link above

and have a look at the debt stats below, UK debt is much the same as Germanys or France's
EUROPA - Press Releases - Third quarter 2011 compared with second quarter 2011 Euro area government debt down to 87.4% of GDP EU27 up to 82.2%

 

[stevieb15]

Apparantly servicing the Debt costs the same as defence spending, so if we scrapped defence we could double our debt...just a happy thought:bannana:

see link above

and have a look at the debt stats below, UK debt is much the same as Germanys or France's
EUROPA - Press Releases - Third quarter 2011 compared with second quarter 2011 Euro area government debt down to 87.4% of GDP EU27 up to 82.2%

Again you're factally correct but the conclusions you draw are rather like damning an arguement with faint praise, neither Germany nor France set an example to follow or praise, being as good as other poor performers hardly something to aim for.
We're possibly in heated agreement but we differing in the way forward.
As a passionate libertarian and probably a bit of an anarcho-capitalist see little to be gained in more (failed) state intervention.

 

[WesLangdon]

The Political Compass - Test

see where you are pilitically

 

[stevieb15]

Wes,
Sent IM.
Good link.

 

[davethemus]

Like the test Wes:

Economic Left/Right: -6.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.85

I'm that in words at least, maybe in actions my score would be a bit different.

 

[grober]

The game of monopoly money continues. J.P. Morgan Flags $2 Billion Trading Loss - WSJ.com
and

BBC News - JPMorgan reveals shock $2bn trading loss on investments


Problem centred round a trader in the UK Bruno Michel Iksil named the "the London whale"-- you couldn't make it up - presumably one of these so so valuable people we have to pay obscene bonuses to retain their services. Why do we persist in wedding the nation's future to the roulette tables of international finance? Maybe we should be sending our cabinet ministers to "gambler's anonymous"

 

[acej]

The game of monopoly money continues. J.P. Morgan Flags $2 Billion Trading Loss - WSJ.com
and

BBC News - JPMorgan reveals shock $2bn trading loss on investments

Problem centred round a trader in the UK Bruno Michel Iksil named the "the London whale"-- you couldn't make it up - presumably one of these so so valuable people we have to pay obscene bonuses to retain their services. Why do we persist in wedding the nation's future to the roulette tables of international finance? Maybe we should be sending our cabinet ministers to "gambler's anonymous"

Big loss but. This is not a greed based investment strategy gone wrong, this was a quant based model that was designed to reduce risk and market exposure for the bank itself that was I'll conceived or more likely short of accurate data. JPM hedge over $200b a day to mitigate market risk and these strategies are crucial in minimising the risk of a failure in a banks investment portfolio That could have a knock on effect to its clients or a the wider economy. Risk management is critical for large scale banking groups that look after 10's of trillions of our money. Risk models and tighter regulation on how hedging is used has been a focus of central banks and regulators since the collapse of Lehmans and questions will be levied at JPM about its internal controls in managing it's risk mitigation strategies. The bank will take the hit which will equate to around 6w revenues but will be under increasing pressure to increase its capital reserves due to inadequate control to insure for future losses.

Sorry for the Rant but this is not a greed or political issue just crap controls and poor management in my view!

 

[Dryce]

Sorry for the Rant but this is not a greed or political issue just crap controls and poor management in my view!

Ah well that's a relief. I can sleep easy knowing that there's nothing systemic. It's not as if anybody mentioned the term quant.

Zzzzzzzzzz.

Hang on a mo..... Oh SH*T! Somebody did use the 'q' word.

 

[acej]

Ah well that's a relief. I can sleep easy knowing that there's nothing systemic. It's not as if anybody mentioned the term quant.

Zzzzzzzzzz.

Hang on a mo..... Oh SH*T! Somebody did use the 'q' word.

Glad I could help you sleep.

The point is its easy to throw out comments about governments and banks but like other threads on this forum when a factual explanation of actually what causes the problem can be provided you the facts to form an informed opinion based on fact not fiction.

If it bores you why post you don't seem to have an opinion based on either fact or fiction!

 

[Deleted member 37751]

The Political Compass - Test

see where you are pilitically

Some good questions in there Wes, thanks for the link.

My results are;

Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.85

It puts me close to a certain Mahatma Gandhi, no less...

 

[acej]

I am no Gandhi but a seem to be going left and down in my old age.

Economic Left/Right: -1.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.21

 

[Bellow]

Economic Left/Right: -6.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.31 for me.

 

[Dryce]

Glad I could help you sleep.

For a while at least.

The point is its easy to throw out comments about governments and banks but like other threads on this forum when a factual explanation of actually what causes the problem can be provided you the facts to form an informed opinion based on fact not fiction.

It's also easy for governments and banks and other institutions to tell people who ask quite sensible questions that they really don't know what they're talking about.

 

[acej]

For a while at least.

It's also easy for governments and banks and other institutions to tell people who ask quite sensible questions that they really don't know what they're talking about.

I agree but that has no relevance to my summary or your response. Maybe time for a another nap?

 

[markjay]

...It's also easy for governments and banks and other institutions to tell people who ask quite sensible questions that they really don't know what they're talking about.

It's more common however for them to use Orwellian Newspeak.

Francois Hollande's 'emphasis on growth' is just another way of saying 'let's not stop public spending and let's do away with Merkel's austerity measures' - once 'growth' goes into the budget then there's no need for cuts any more, the debt issue will be resolved by some sort of mysterious optimistic future income whose sources remain unidentified. It's basically the same as putting a future lottery jackpot win into the budget - just dressing it up to sound more believable. 'Spend to Save' reminds me of this old American phrase: http://tinyurl.com/cug6jtm

 

[Dryce]

I agree but that has no relevance to my summary or your response.

It's a matter of perspective.

Maybe time for a another nap?

If onlly that were possible. But sadly the 'q' word was noticed.

 

[Dryce]

Francois Hollande's 'emphasis on growth' is just another way of saying 'let's not stop public spending and let's do away with Merkel's austerity measures' - once 'growth' goes into the budget then there's no need for cuts any more, the debt issue will be resolved by some sort of mysterious optimistic future income whose sources remain unidentified.

There was a rather wry one liner buried in the Economist which IMO sums it up with regard to the Euro:

"the euro will survive only if every country confronts the choice it shies away from"
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