EV powered by coal?

[Harrythedog]

This is before the majority of car owners plug into the National Grid

UK had to turn on coal power plant to help National Grid cope with low winds

Two units at West Burton A, operated by EDF, had to be turned on as the weather system bringing warm temperatures suppressed wind around the UK's turbines. While the UK has been moving away from coal power, it is still used in reserve to provide stability to the National Grid.

news.sky.com

 

[GeeJayW]

Another example of how disjointed the thinking on energy provision is, and how fragile the environmental ambitions are in the face of consumer demand and commercial/economic realities.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Thanks' for bringing this to our attention. I did not see it on the 'front pages' of any of the mainstream news feeds....I wonder why not ?

 

[ChrisHGTV]

Thanks' for bringing this to our attention. I did not see it on the 'front pages' of any of the mainstream news feeds....I wonder why not ?

We also had to increase coal use when we started to come out of the latest lockdown. I saw a similar report on it. (I actually thought the above link was referring to the same, but seems this is at least the second time)

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Thanks' for bringing this to our attention. I did not see it on the 'front pages' of any of the mainstream news feeds....I wonder why not ?

Another way of looking at this is that Gas and Electricity prices right across Europe are at all time highs, thanks to the recovery from the Pandemic.

This explains why the UK, and other countries, are switching coal power stations back on, rather than buying electricity and gas from the Continent.

So that's another substantial increase to prices, both industrial and commercial over 2021 / 2022.

Here's an FT article on the subject (sorry for the distracting header) Become an FT subscriber to read | Financial Times

And Reuters talking about the ... Record-breaking summer European gas prices signal an expensive winter

On the other hand, to keep a bit of perspective on all this journalistic nonsense, we have come a very long way in our use of renewables. According to my phone, this is where the UK is getting its energy from at midday today.

 

[Harrythedog]

Thanks' for bringing this to our attention. I did not see it on the 'front pages' of any of the mainstream news feeds....I wonder why not ?

You’ll not see this either.
While we’re being brow beaten into reducing our 1% contribution to the World’s pollution China carries on

China reopening coal mines to meet accelerating demand

Coal-fired power generation in China appears to be ramping up to meet the country's growing demand for electricity.

www.powerengineeringint.com

 

[jasonh]

Another way of looking at this is that Gas and Electricity prices right across Europe are at all time highs, thanks to the recovery from the Pandemic.

This explains why the UK, and other countries, are switching coal power stations back on, rather than buying electricity and gas from the Continent.

So that's another substantial increase to prices, both industrial and commercial over 2021 / 2022.

Here's an FT article on the subject (sorry for the distracting header) Become an FT subscriber to read | Financial Times

And Reuters talking about the ... Record-breaking summer European gas prices signal an expensive winter

On the other hand, to keep a bit of perspective on all this journalistic nonsense, we have come a very long way in our use of renewables. According to my phone, this is where the UK is getting its energy from at midday today.






View attachment 118081

And I suspect the solar input won't be quite the same at night.... Or even during the day in a few days time.

 

[Steveml63]

Hydrogen is the future - not coal!

 

[ChrisHGTV]

And I suspect the solar input won't be quite the same at night.... Or even during the day in a few days time.

Interestingly i was working on a project for Nambia a few years ago. The plan was to provide electric lighting to every Namibian (puts a lot of our moans into perspective!). The initial plan was solar but it wasn't financially feasible so hydrocarbons it was - exploration was based around surface seeps.

 

[GeeJayW]

Hydrogen is the future - not coal!

Depends on where and how one gets the hydrogen, but certainly is a very interesting ‘fuel’.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

And I suspect the solar input won't be quite the same at night.... Or even during the day in a few days time.

Exactly. Which is why we shouldn't have chickened out of Nuclear.

But at least renewable energy has overtaken fossil fuels now, and looks set to maintain that lead.

Crazy to think that wind farms have come so far this last decade.

And that idiots were striking and fighting to send their 16 year old sons down the coal mines in the Eighties.

 

[GeeJayW]

Exactly. Which is why we shouldn't have chickened out of Nuclear.

Nuclear has a very long tail, with spent fuel rods and other radio active waste materials needing safe storage for a very long time into the future.

 

[zipdip]

Well it is all a mess,our energy needs will always be best served by nuclear, you need more power build another nuclear plant,solar and wind are great but as we can see at this very early stage in the green adventure,that they cannot supply,and of course we have a strange thing in that this summer gas is expensive,when for the last 20 years you could not give it away in the summer,so whats happening there,we cannot be held captive by the big gas producers,we need to rethink and go Nuclear,if all you guys who want a electric car are not going to have to ask can I charge my car mister today please,

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Nuclear has a very long tail, with spent fuel rods and other radio active waste materials needing safe storage for a very long time into the future.

While just eight million people die from the pollution caused by burning fossil fuels every year, and eight percent of fatal work accidents worldwide occur in mining, which employs maybe 1% of the global workforce. On the other hand, most of the 23,000 miners who die annually in Europe are relatively uneducated working class men who knew the risks that they were taking.

 

[GeeJayW]

While just eight million people die from the pollution caused by burning fossil fuels every year, and eight percent of fatal work accidents worldwide occur in mining, which employs maybe 1% of the global workforce. On the other hand, most of the 23,000 miners who die annually in Europe are relatively uneducated working class men who knew the risks that they were taking.

I’m not advocating for coal. I am suggesting that there is no panacea for future energy supply. Nuclear is a solution, not the solution.

There needs (in my opinion and for what it’s worth) to be greater diversity in energy supply. Currently and in the recent past, hydrocarbon fuels have been the principle source for electricity generation, and domestic and transport fuels. Finding a direct universal replacement is fraught with all sorts of difficulty. Whereas developing energy supply solutions that work at a local/regional level is likely to be more robust going forward. It also has the potential to reduce the influence that ’big oil’ or ‘big gas’ can have on our lives.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

New petrol and diesel car sales will be 'banned from 2030' | Electric Mercedes models

https://www.edfenergy.com/media-centre/news-releases/edf-confirms-west-burton-will-close-september-2022-two-years-ahead https://news.sky.com/story/uk-had-to-turn-on-coal-power-plant-to-help-national-grid-cope-with-low-winds-12400835 WON'T BE AN OPTION AFTER NEXT YEAR. Somewhat disturbing...

forums.mbclub.co.uk

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I’m not advocating for coal. I am suggesting that there is no panacea for future energy supply. Nuclear is a solution, not the solution.

There needs (in my opinion and for what it’s worth) to be greater diversity in energy supply. Currently and in the recent past, hydrocarbon fuels have been the principle source for electricity generation, and domestic and transport fuels. Finding a direct universal replacement is fraught with all sorts of difficulty. Whereas developing energy supply solutions that work at a local/regional level is likely to be more robust going forward. It also has the potential to reduce the influence that ’big oil’ or ‘big gas’ can have on our lives.

Wish I could share your optimism about reducing the influence of the energy industry on our lives. The source may be changing, from oil and gas, but the organisations continue to monopolise their markets and we see new dependencies arriving: the rush to extract lithium from the likes of Australia and Chile, and the horrific dependency of EV technology on cobalt mined from the corrupt and politically unstable mess that is the Republic of Congo.

Local supply of solar, wind and wave power sounds great, but it's the bigger companies that have the edge in developing the business - from the water and beer you drink, via the shops and vehicles we use, to the energy we use to light and warm our homes, offices and factories.

 

[GeeJayW]

Wish I could share your optimism about reducing the influence of the energy industry on our lives. The source may be changing, from oil and gas, but the organisations continue to monopolise their markets and we see new dependencies arriving: the rush to extract lithium from the likes of Australia and Chile, and the horrific dependency of EV technology on cobalt mined from the corrupt and politically unstable mess that is the Republic of Congo.

Local supply of solar, wind and wave power sounds great, but it's the bigger companies that have the edge in developing the business - from the water and beer you drink, via the shops and vehicles we use, to the energy we use to light and warm our homes, offices and factories.

I’m not at all optimistic about our energy supply future and expect it to continue being the total stitch up it has become.

 

[davymead]

Australians who rightly bemoan paying any form of ‘energy tax’ whilst their ‘green’ government sells cheap coal to the Chinese to burn in their ever increasing number of gigantic fossil fuel burners. . Flourishing to accommodate our greed for their cheap products. Me included IMA.

 

[BPD07]

Still easier to smog/filter one power station than it is to filter x thousand cars.