Evo magazine

[st4]

If you get June 2011's edition you'll see none other than my goodself is published as letter of the month.

An issue or two before that I was also published.

My piece is on the charms of rear wheel drive, which in my view cannot be bettered. The fun a RWD car can offer, the the depth of involvement simply cannot be matched by a FWD car.

So, in dedication to RWD motoring, I left my driveway with the rear end nicely

out

 

[Doodle]

The fun a RWD car can offer, the the depth of involvement simply cannot be matched by a FWD car.

I would beg to differ on this point, but would postulate that it does require an exceptional FWD to do it. I was lucky enough to spend 3 years in the ownership of one :bannana:

 

[st4]

I would beg to differ on this point, but would postulate that it does require an exceptional FWD to do it. I was lucky enough to spend 3 years in the ownership of one :bannana:

Intergra type R.

Never driven one but everyone rants and raves but every sporty FWD car I've driven I've been left cold by, admired yes, but not found "fun and involving" just "easy and quick"

 

[Barbanasos]

Peugeot 106 rallye! It can bite but if you get used to it, it can be as much fun as a cart on tight twisty bends.

 

[Doodle]

Integra DC2 is one. Civic FD2 raised the bar - same ethos, 15 years more development.

I agree, by and large sporty FWD is easy and quick - that's the market they are aimed towards, allowing Joe Average to extract a reasonable level of performance. The difference is when you step into something genuinely talented, and see just what FWD really can deliver; hence the "exceptional"

Surely the letter is then distinctly flawed if (as you admit) you haven't experienced the best of both sides?

 

[st4]

Integra DC2 is one. Civic FD2 raised the bar - same ethos, 15 years more development.

I agree, by and large sporty FWD is easy and quick - that's the market they are aimed towards, allowing Joe Average to extract a reasonable level of performance. The difference is when you step into something genuinely talented, and see just what FWD really can deliver; hence the "exceptional"

Surely the letter is then distinctly flawed if (as you admit) you haven't experienced the best of both sides?

I've sampled the civic type r and just thought it was tedious.

The most impressive of the ilk was a MK V diesel golf but it was so light at the back, and the stand out thing was the DSG which made the car, but it was jump into and go.

Todays drive in the merc, wobbling hips, mild corrective lock, ESP intervention (I love the way it works so I provoke it sometimes). I tried all this in a FWD and you cannot do this.

The main thing, day in, day out over a FWD is the subtleties.

The steering, completely uncorrupted.

Cornerning, the complete feeling of balance, and being able to use the go pedal to midly adjust the additute for the car in the bend.

Just missing from a FWD. FWD was soley invented to save space in the car and costs. Nothing else.

Imagine your intergra with the rear wheels drive, still all the poise, but more adjustable, and more fun!!

I suspect though it comes down to taste as there are many FWD car owners who love the way their cars drive, I am just not a fan.

 

[flango]

Steering and Power through wheels on the same axle is wrong, you can't argue with the laws of Physics. A RWD car is so much better than a FWD and a 4x4 car is even better again. I have never yet driven a FWD car that behaves better including, civic, 400 bhp RS focus, choice for power and control is easy

1. 4x4
2. RWD
3. FWD

Theres a reason MB, Porsche & BMW don't do powerful FWD models it's all in the handling and performance

 

[LTD]

Steve

Get behind a 911 and drive it seriously. You will then realise what you have just alluded to.

Then get a hold of a Subaru ........ you'll then understand what Ian means.

 

[Doodle]

I've sampled the civic type r and just thought it was tedious.

The most impressive of the ilk was a MK V diesel golf but it was so light at the back, and the stand out thing was the DSG which made the car, but it was jump into and go.

Todays drive in the merc, wobbling hips, mild corrective lock, ESP intervention (I love the way it works so I provoke it sometimes). I tried all this in a FWD and you cannot do this.

The main thing, day in, day out over a FWD is the subtleties.

The steering, completely uncorrupted.

Cornerning, the complete feeling of balance, and being able to use the go pedal to midly adjust the additute for the car in the bend.

Just missing from a FWD. FWD was soley invented to save space in the car and costs. Nothing else.

Imagine your intergra with the rear wheels drive, still all the poise, but more adjustable, and more fun!!

I suspect though it comes down to taste as there are many FWD car owners who love the way their cars drive, I am just not a fan.

Which Civic? The UK model? A pale shadow in comparison to the Japanese models, this is a well known fact.

The Integra is infinitely adjustable as it is, just as much as a RWD car is. My FD2 was the same. Don't sit there saying it would be this or that until you've actually driven one, that's frankly insulting and presumptuous.

Ian makes a valid point above, and one that I would be in agreement with, but it doesn't mean that you cannot have an exciting and exceedingly rapid fwd car that can give 4wd/rwd a run for their money. It's safe to say Mark proved this with his CRX's, god rest his soul.

However, it is starting to become clear. A diesel MkV Golf as a paragon of handling, and the comments about the dynamic abilities the 211. Enough said, I'll leave you to it chap.

 

[st4]

Steve

Get behind a 911 and drive it seriously. You will then realise what you have just alluded to.

Then get a hold of a Subaru ........ you'll then understand what Ian means.

Driven heaps of AWD cars, only know too well what Ian is driving at (bad pun).

The best was the Audi S6, boy did that thing move and was very stable and planted, if bland and slightly inert but it went where you pointed it, and felt much more balanced looking back than any FWD car. And in the wet, I would not see which way it went. But then for the fun stuff, it might leave you cold, you know that way when the back just wobbles slightly, and it dances on the tarmac, exiting the drive this AM was a prime example. Slower, but much more fun.

For use on UK roads, getting near the capablities of any modern car will be more folly than wise, but its the subtle feelings you get that make it. Its why I really like the big E, it has a "feel" to it, a sense of balance and poise, even though its big and heavy. Maybe I just like the push rather than pull, any RWD car I have driven I have always enjoyed (more mercs than I can count on my hands, BMWs etc).

never driven a 911 or any car with the engine up back, but have a feeling I would enjoy that a lot, however, reading about 911s, they need a different driving style and a car to be mastered, but I would love to try one.

 

[wemorgan]

Congratulations on getting printed Steve.

A 'dab of oppo' with my right foot down in a RWD car brings a smile to my face.

 

[flango]

RWD and a dab of oppo

for your delight

 

[Doodle]

Now, when I look at the 5-series, I can hear the words "I can get it back, I will get it back" :lol:

 

[st4]

Now, when I look at the 5-series, I can hear the words "I can get it back, I will get it back" :lol:

Not "oh ****" I have really done it this time.

My posting was really in regards to the DSG transmission which I found the most impressive of the lot. The basic golf set up is a nice enough one, but the nose laden feel of it made it so easy to go quick in but not really exciting.

Not driven a Japanese civic, but on the same ilk a brief lend of a clio 182 left me quite cold.

Just maybe not the sort of car I would buy. Way way faster than mine, just not what I would be looking for.

 

[LTD]

Steve

To appreciate any car, of any drive configuration, you must firstly find one that can allow you to drive it on the edge of performance and then beyond.

Only then can you make judgement.

A fat hipped 211 on Chinese rubber just ain't going to do that for you.

Get yourself and some mates out to a local go-karting track and go back to basics. When you are facing the wrong way then you know it's fun !!!

 

[flango]

pro karting at Knockhill anyone :bannana:

 

[Doodle]

Not "oh ****" I have really done it this time.

My posting was really in regards to the DSG transmission which I found the most impressive of the lot. The basic golf set up is a nice enough one, but the nose laden feel of it made it so easy to go quick in but not really exciting.

Not driven a Japanese civic, but on the same ilk a brief lend of a clio 182 left me quite cold.

Just maybe not the sort of car I would buy. Way way faster than mine, just not what I would be looking for.

Optimism The "oh ****" comes when you've landed in the field and have stopped moving

DSG is a bit marmite - it's very very competent and fast, but rather Playstation IMO. Too many gadgets and electronics get in the way of proper driver involvement, they dilute the experience regardless of which wheels are driven. As a teenager I cut my teeth on an Mk1 MX5, no power steering, no traction control, no ABS...possibly the purest driving experience I could get. I blame my mother

I can understand being left cold by a clio 182, I was too. Competent...not exciting, not exceptional enough. Disappointing.

I know I've been lucky, I've had the opportunity to own or have use of some serious metal over the past 12 years. Wouldn't swap it for the world.

Karting sounds good. Can I have one for each foot please?

 

[wemorgan]

I quite enjoy reading what Chris Harris has to say about cars. Recently he wrote in his blog how he didn’t like the MX5 but liked the Clio Cup.
So it just goes to show, even someone whose opinion you usually agree with can have an opinion poles apart from your own.
It also shows how difficult it is to review cars, especially older cars. A standard MX5 will understeer, but one setup nicely and even on aftermarket suspension is a very different car and perhaps not fair to compare to others.

The RWD vs FWD debate even divides track fans as I’d say that 1/5 of cars on track days are still FWD. They look like they’re still having fun and that’s what counts

 

[Gareth]

I've had a lot more fun in my old Clio 172 and Megane R26 than I've ever had in the E-Class, that said I have had the E-Class a lot more sideways albeit because of worn rear tyres (which were promptly replaced).

 

[NISFAN]

The key difference between FWD/RWD is the technique used to drive each. I guess some prefer/more used to one technique over the other.

There is no doubt that a good FWD example (Honda CTR especially Jap LSD version, Megane R26.R, etc), is seriously quick and good fun in a 'can be thrown around like a cart' way.

A FWD is also usually more forgiving and easier to drive on the limit than a RWD, which I suppose for some means a little bland, but for others is confidence inspiring.

For me, I enjoy the challenges you get from a RWD, especially a front engined RWD, which is the most difficult to master, as you usually have understeer intially then snap oversteer, an entertaining characteristic
You also get a purer feel from a RWD, as the steering is not affected as much by throttle input (zero torque steer effect, differential drive effect), and you get that lovely rear end squat when you give it the beans. very enjoyable when you get it all right.

What I don't get is an Automatic transmission coupled to a RWD...........you may as well be towed.

A rear wheel biased AWD is an amazingly animal, as it is like RWD but better, although is that little bit calmer. Boy I do miss my Prodrive Sti.