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We have to agree to differ.
Edit - I've removed my comment. We can of course agree to differ.
 
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The stewards only "investigated" because of the crash, I very much doubt that they would have done so otherwise. Calling it a brake check is stretching it. All IMO of course, and it changes nothing.

The stewards tend to investigate things that are visible. Crashes are very visible.

Part of the problem here is the dependency of modern racing cars on aerodynamics. It allows very high cornering speeds but also messes up following cars when things go wrong. The cars are in a sense too fast. The refinements and complications in the rules as to what drivers are allowed to do on entry to a corner are a consequence of that.

I have taken the view that FA is one of the most intelligent and committed drivers in F1 - ever.

But that also means that *I believe* he knew *and understood* exactly what he was doing with that manoeuvre. Just enough to be overlooked - to get away with - while dramatically impeding the car behind. Super smart - but not right.

It almost became a life changing disaster.

So it was very visible and drew attention which is why it was investigated and the rules interpreted in relationship to the telemetry (not the outcome or potential outcome).

If there had been one or more cars following at speed (and possibly racing with more attention on each other) into that corner then we could have seen one of the worst accidents and injuries of modern times.

That is why the rules exist. And why a penalty is applicable.
 
...and why that potentially huge accident didn't happen....

Yep, and as we know radio links don’t always work well everywhere on the circuit. So in this case, thank goodness the radio worked and Lance a) got the heads-up and b) paid attention to it.

Should IMHO have been a Red Flag as soon as the car became an obstruction across the circuit.
 
I guess it's just something else that drivers and teams would 'game' to their advantage if they have opportunities to do so... :confused:

If the race had been red flagged then they would have presumably gone back 2 laps.

Full points awarded based on the positions on those laps. So George Russell would have had points. Alonso would have then presumably had a penalty applied. I'm not sure if the penalty would have put Alonso even further back - given that following cars would have lost time negotiating the wreck of GR's car on the circuit.

My feeling is that the race should have been immediately red flagged. There should have been no question given the position of the car. You have to sort out attending to and extracting a possibly injured driver, protect marshals giving the driver aid and dealing with fire risks. You can't wait to hear the driver calling for a red flag.

Dealing with the complications of race outcome and the points and penalties were all secondary in that moment.
 
My feeling is that the race should have been immediately red flagged. There should have been no question. You have to sort out attending to and extracting a possibly injured driver, protect marshals giving the driver aid and dealing with fire risks. You can't wait to hear the driver calling for a red flag.

Dealing with the complications of race outcome and the points and penalties were all secondary in that moment.
^ This.

I'm forming the view that there's been far too much worrying about the entertainment spectacle at the expense of safety and fairness in F1 since the demise of Charlie Whiting.
 
^ This.

I'm forming the view that there's been far too much worrying about the entertainment spectacle at the expense of safety and fairness in F1 since the demise of Charlie Whiting.
At the time, I said that good as Whiting was, he'd be replaced and no one would notice any difference. Sure called that one wrong!
In my defence, at the same time, I said that on Hamilton winning his eighth title (which he did - but for the robbery), him and Mercedes should retire while at their peak there being nowhere to go but down. Guessing there's a few in Mercedes now wish for that.
 
If all the cars were the same as they were when Hamilton was winning I still don't think Hamilton would be able to win now.....its amazing he stayed at the top as long as he did IMO....not many do. Getting older and perhaps losing that hunger (which I might do If I had more cash than I knew what to do with!) will slow even the best down. People like Rossi and Fogarty etc just lost their edge with age....as we all do!!! Some know when to quit.....others not.
 
If all the cars were the same as they were when Hamilton was winning I still don't think Hamilton would be able to win now.....its amazing he stayed at the top as long as he did IMO....not many do. Getting older and perhaps losing that hunger (which I might do If I had more cash than I knew what to do with!) will slow even the best down. People like Rossi and Fogarty etc just lost their edge with age....as we all do!!! Some know when to quit.....others not.
I'm really not sure about that. Sure everyone reaches a point where they are past it. I don't think Hamilton is quite done yet.

Notwithstanding the very slightly over-worn skid blocks (having also done a sprint race the day before), Hamilton showed in Austin last year what he can do when the car is hooked up and giving him confidence. Finishing ahead of the pack behind the Red Bulls last year, even challenging Checo for 2nd place also shows that Hamilton still has pace.

The problem for him and Mercedes is that they still don't understand what they did in Austin to get the car into that operating window and why they are unable to replicate that level of performance. I don't believe that it's the driver.

There will be those that say, 'ah yes, but the car was illegally low'. But, the over-wear was marginal. On a normal weekend, they would most likely have been in compliance. They've had the car on its skid blocks since and it's just not been as quick or as predictable. They were unable to land this in the closed season. So it's clear they really do have work to do.

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In Adrian Newey's book, he discusses problems that he was experiencing (back in the day) getting a good correlation between the wind tunnel data and real-world aero performance. He was really stuck. Turned out that the floor of the wind tunnel was moving slightly as speed increased which effectively lowered the floor and impacted on the recorded data. I had similar (though simpler) problem years ago trying to understand the calibration behaviour of a flowmeter that transpires was also an unintended pressure transducer as the internal volume was changing measurably with pressure. Took a while to get to the bottom of that one.

Another thing to consider is that even when it all goes well, the wind tunnels use models that are at best 60% or 50% scale. It's not so long ago that 25% or 30% scale models were typical. Achieving dynamic similarity in model testing is always a challenge. Does air passing through a 50mm gap at 300km/h behave in the same way as air passing through a 30mm gap at 200km/h? Do the effects of a 3mm radius edge scale up to 4mm radius edge?

This is why the teams are always trying to build and refine reliable correlations between the track, the CFD models and the wind tunnel. This work, must always challenge the engineering assumptions. On top of the on-track time that is now allowed, there are restrictions on wind tunnel time and on the number of computer processor cycles that can be used for CFD. So, the teams can't just flog the systems to bludgeon their way to a solution. They need people that really understand the aerodynamic design space, which is why Adrian Newey's share value is still pretty high (even though Mr. Horner said Adrian had nothing to do with their current car... :dk:).
 
The only question I have of Hamilton is whether he will finish this season or quit now/soon, enjoy some R&R and return afresh for 2025 and Ferrari.
Is there any point in him busting his balls to make that dog of a Mercedes better when he hasn't a chance of winning this years championship in it?
 
The only question I have of Hamilton is whether he will finish this season or quit now/soon, enjoy some R&R and return afresh for 2025 and Ferrari.
Is there any point in him busting his balls to make that dog of a Mercedes better when he hasn't a chance of winning this years championship in it?
He may also reach a point where he questions if he should help Mercedes develop a car (assuming that his help is a key ingredient, many/some would argue that it isn't) that he will be competing against next year.

It's a long season ahead and if Austin didn't do anything else, it showed that there is performance in there somewhere. So far they've had three oddball circuits to race on; very abrasive surface in Bahrain, quirky layout in Jeddah and the street circuit in Melbourne. If they really have no pace at Suzuka, then Mercedes are in deep doo-doos...
 

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