Fernando Is A Naughty Boy!

[grober]

With team mates like this who needs the Ferrari opposition !

 

[pammy]

With team mates like this who needs the Ferrari opposition !

? Care to expand?

 

[grober]

Sorry-- my first reaction after the final practice of the Hungarian Grand Prix where it would appear Alonso waited an extra 10 seconds in the pits to prevent Hamilton getting in his final lap and possibly getting pole position. RON DENNIS SEEMED TO BE THINKING ALONG THE SAME LINES. Like "Ron Knee" the infamous football manager in Private Eye magazine he was " tight lipped and ashen faced"

 

[tech123]

why can't they just get on with it and race! would love to be a fly on the wall when they have the post quali meeting!

 

[pammy]

Mm - just looked at the BBC News story. They are claiming Ferrari held them back. All sounds very dodgy.

 

[glojo]

I have watched Formula 1 for a good few years and have never seen anything like it. I don't think Alonso was happy with being held for so long on his first visit to the pits and 'perhaps' he was making a point to his own crew?

Ron Dennis was clearly not a happy bunny and this needs to be sorted ASAP.

If I were the team manager I would be making a very polite suggestion to Alonso about who should get to that very first bend in the lead.

All season I have commented on how Hamilton has been getting too much limelight within the team and I have been afraid of something like this and unless it is stopped, we will see a Senna vs Prost situation all over again.

Crazy, crazy crazy.

We criticised Ferrari for their very strict team orders and thankfully now the smuck face has left those tactics have been buried but Alonso was OUT OF ORDER and I'm a big fan oif this very good driver.

John

 

[Dryce]

If I were the team manager I would be making a very polite suggestion to Alonso about who should get to that very first bend in the lead.

This could be seen as being team orders.

If I was team manager I'd like to think I had the guts (and contractual powers) to suspend the driver for the race and fine him 10% of his salary for bringing the team into disrepute.

However big 'Santander' on the back of the McLarens means that they won't want to upset the Spanish sponsors. And they'd look silly if the drivers' or constructors' championships went down to the wire and they lost out by the points they threw away (or gave away).

 

[glojo]

This could be seen as being team orders.

If I was team manager I'd like to think I had the guts (and contractual powers) to suspend the driver for the race and fine him 10% of his salary for bringing the team into disrepute.

However big 'Santander' on the back of the McLarens means that they won't want to upset the Spanish sponsors. And they'd look silly if the drivers' or constructors' championships went down to the wire and they lost out by the points they threw away (or gave away).

Team orders tactical strategy?? Who cares what its called. Those that think Ferrari are whiter than white need look no further than the missing wheel when Irvine could easily have won the drivers championship plus his car was reported to be 'underpowered' in a few of the other races. Ron Dennis has always encouraged his drivers to be competitive and I for one salute him for that stance. It has cost his team dearly in previous seasons, but he is a man whose dedication to the sport is an example to other constructors. Alonso is the current World champion and we are talking about a very competitive individual, I still think it possible that he was displeased with his pit crew and might have been making a point to them?

Hungary is one of the most boring circuits on the calender and there will be very little chance of overtaking unless we see adverse weather conditions so that first corner AND pit strategy will interesting. Will we see any overtaking during the pitting period?

John

 

[Dryce]

Hungary is one of the most boring circuits on the calender and there will be very little chance of overtaking unless we see adverse weather conditions so that first corner

Hence the obvious incentivisation to do the sort of thing that Alonso appeared to have done.

It's also getting later in the season and if in the run in to the end the team policy is to provide their leading driver in the championship with the first choice of strategy then that adds more incentive.

 

[scumbag]

Maybe I am daft, but I actually smiled when it occured. It thought it was good quick thinking, and as Hamilton already had pole, and only Alonso could beat it, there is no team issue. Its a team mate issue and in my book Alonso was just making his less experinced team mate know who is boss. He then did actually go out and get Pole so it was a confident thing to do.

If I was team boss I would not have said anything to either of them until the just before the race in tomorrow. Then I would have explained to Alonso with Hamilton present, just what a risk he took for the team, and that this will not be expected in the race, and if any of them have any kind of repeat session during the race, I would call them both in and withdraw them from the race! Imagine the humility that would cause!

That will certanly focus their minds on the race and the team.

Its all good character building stuff for Hamilton, and I think they have quite a good bond between them. Plus, at one race I do recall Alonso being a tad upset at the team for not asking Lewis to move over for him, but he didnt risk anything on track.

And of course, Hamilton will easily be able to repeat this favour to Alonso just when he doesn't want it. So he will be an Author of his own demise with it anyway.

Nope, I think we are going to get a huge overeaction to this event between 2 teammates!


With any luck, that overreaction will take the focus away from Ferrari using an illegal car in Australia and thereby having both drivers in a race with a car that is effectivly cheating the rules!!!


More importantly however, Eddie Murphy is Mel B's babies FATHER!

 

[scumbag]

Hungary is one of the most boring circuits on the calender and there will be very little chance of overtaking unless we see adverse weather conditions so that first corner AND pit strategy will interesting. Will we see any overtaking during the pitting period?

John

Ahem, 1989 often gets mentioned when somebody points out you cant overtake here! Same guy did a fair bit in 1992 too.

Mind you I am too young to remember any of that.

 

[SG CL500]

I don't think you're daft but I do disagree with your view.

It appears that F1 has moved on from all its overtaking strategy happening in the pits - now all the qualifying strategy happens there too.

Alonso seems to have forgotten he is supposed to be a sportsman.

 

[scumbag]

Alonso appears to have forgotten he is supposed to be a sportsman.

Obviously I am not wanting to create an argument and fully accept the views other may have that differ with mine.

But if I may be so bold as to suggest this as a defence of these actions.

Cricketers, footballers, and other players of sports that allow you to get within insulting distance of your opposition whilst actually partaking in that sport, often attempt to use the phsycology that such remarks will help to put the opposing player off. As an F1 driver has no chance to do this during driving, other types of behaviour come to the fore to be used for the same reason.

I would think that this kind of thing is in the realms of sportsmanship as the "deed doer" risks the "done untoer" doing the deed unto him at a later date.

Therefore I put it "fair is fair"

Unlike Fisi who clearly held up another competitor so he would get a clear run, when he had plenty of opportunity to pull over before the last corner. Now thats not sporting.

 

[glojo]

Ahem, 1989 often gets mentioned when somebody points out you cant overtake here! Same guy did a fair bit in 1992 too.

Mind you I am too young to remember any of that.

There will always be exceptions, but the track was designed along the lines of the street circuit at Monaco. Mansell was a great driver when in the right frame of mind and strangely enough the Italian fans used to rate him as a better driver than you know who? When that Birmingham red mist came down then he was uinbeatable, my favourite memory is of his overtake of Prost coming out of the tunnel at Monaco, again another circuit where there is very little overtaking. I'm certain the media will make a big issue of what Alonso did. Hamilton will do EXACTLY what he is told to do, whereas I believe Alonso is more of a free spirit, but free spirit or not, I fear words will be said.

I was surprised at the length of time he was held by his pit crew during the previous pit stop especially as there is no cooling for these engines when stationary?

Do we think this is a minor blip that will be instantly forgotten, or will there be 'pay-back?'
I don't think this behaviour is character building, I think it stinks as much as smuck face blocking the track once he got pole position, he was punished for that piece of bad sportsmanship, and what Alonso done was no different in so far as he blocked another drivers attempt at getting pole position?

smuck face was punished, so should Alonso be punished, should there be an appeal Should we accuse drivers of cheating? Should this case go to Paris Hilton? to adjudicate?

John the curious

 

[scumbag]

smuck face was punished, so should Alonso be punished, should there be an appeal Should we accuse drivers of cheating? Should this case go to Paris Hilton? to adjudicate?

John the curious

Just my view here.

MS deliberatly stopped his car on the track knowing it would prevent a guy in an opposing team from gaining Pole which he had.

In Alonso's case, he waited till he got the best possible chance for a clear track to have a go at getting Pole which he currently did not have, and if that meant his teammate had to wait, well he is number on in the team, is the current world champion, and it was his own teammate who had pole and therefore Had Alonso not go it, his team and his teamate had already secured it. Hence, 2 different circumstances.


However, Alonso, was accused of deliberatly holding up Massa at Monzo last year, and was given a punishment, Which the evidence did not back up.

If the stewards wish to make an issue on this, they will have to prove that Alonso deliberatly waited to scupper his teamates chance, as opposed to waiting till he knew the track was as clear as it could be. And that is the drivers perogative. There was nothing to stop his team pushing the car out of the way!

 

[Swiss Toni]

Its just tactics. Spices things up. Good on him.

 

[timskemp]

Damn - I missed the qualifying (driving back from peterborough) - downloading it now...

Sounds like a sneaky move to me, which will have the story of "waiting for clear track" as a get out clause. Sneaky and unsporting yes, against the rules? Debatable...

 

[glojo]

If the stewards wish to make an issue on this, they will have to prove that Alonso deliberatly waited to scupper his teamates chance, as opposed to waiting till he knew the track was as clear as it could be. And that is the drivers perogative. There was nothing to stop his team pushing the car out of the way!

I am playing devil's advocate and have no opinion either way, but during the first pit stop Alonso was delayed by his pit crew to gain track position. The lollipop stayed down and we saw the pit crew counting down the seconds before he could go? On the second instance we saw the lollipop lift and the driver told to go? All communication between the pit crew and driver are recorded, so if he was held for strategic reasons then there is no issue, but I fear that is humbug?

Does it matter that he parked his car and blocked a 'team-mate' surely he blocked a competitor that was competing for pole position?

If it was tactical then why was smuck face penalised for tacticallly blocking his competitors from beating his time?

I'm not suggesting anything, I am merely asking questions.

Regards
John

 

[neilrr]

Hamilton & the team should have been thinking on their feet & forgotten about new tyres and driven through.

That way he would have had a) the chance to complete a lap & b) the chance to **** with Fernando's lap.

Isn't Hamilton mature for his age though? A complete team man in the press conference, he'll let his driving do the talking tomorrow.

 

[scumbag]

if it was tactical then why was smuck face penalised for tacticallly blocking his competitors from beating his time?

I'm not suggesting anything, I am merely asking questions.

Regards
John

I am not quite sure how you can relate the two here.

Alonso will almost certainly have been fed info by radio about Kimi's position while he was sat in the pit. He will also have been told to go, and he will have been told that Lewis was behind him. The radio traffic to him would allow him to make a decision on when to leave after he was cleared to leave. The fact he waited, causing his teamate to miss his chance, is incidental. (Even if it was tactically deliberate) And as stated by me before, his teamate was already on pole. so he didnt prevent him getting it.


MS make a pretend mistake which as a result, meant that the driver who was on a quicker lap and would have taken pole, was prevented from doing so, and the situation that Ferrari presented did not conclusivly prove that MS had not deliberatly done this manouver and as doubt exists, he was relegated.

One of these events is sporting behaviour however morally we Brits think of it, and the other is plain cheating. You could even see MS smirk when a reporter asked him if it was deliberate, and he brazenly said no. He was also voted off the presidency of the driver assocation after this race. That is a vote by all the other drivers!

Alonso wont get any issues with this other than those of us who agree and disagree as to whether this kind of thing is sporting conduct or not.

Personnaly I think its acceptable, and I think nobody, other than the team, will have any right to say anything as punishment for it. (I mean the race stewards etc, we all have a right to express our opinions even if you are all wrong of course )