Fiat Bravo - Oh Dear

[st13phil]

Just had a trip to Palermo, Sicily, and while there rented a car for one day as we wanted to visit CIDMA, the anti-Mafia museum in Corleone (and fascinating it was too, but that's for a different thread) which is nigh on impossible to reach by public transport from Palermo. I know that the Bravo isn't exactly in the same league as my W204, but spending a day with it underlined just how good Mercedes design is by comparison. The Bravo in question was a 120ps 1.6 diesel with "Dynamic" trim package so it was actually pretty much top of range and surprisingly pricey - best part of £19k at list in the UK, albeit as an auto here while the car we rented was manual transmission.

Starting with the interior you could (but shouldn't) make allowances for the slightly haphazard fit of some of the trim, but basic requirements such as instruments that can be read without reflections completely obscuring them and heating/cooling/ventilation controls that are still legible in sunlight didn't seem to be part of Fiat's design brief. Actually, external visibility didn't seem to be high on the design team's list either. I can honestly say that I don't remember ever driving a car with so many huge blind spots. The combination of a small rear window and large C-posts mean that rear visibility is seriously compromised, and this is exacerbated by the B-posts being positioned such that it's impossible to see anything at all if you make a shoulder check. The A-posts are extraordinarily thick and steeply angled which means that on twisting mountain roads the whole view ahead can disappear completely for a disturbingly long period unless you constantly have move your head to maintain a reasonable view of the road alternately through the windscreen and side window.

Dynamically, the ride is a strange mixture of being jittery but with fairly significant body roll. Ultimate grip levels seemed reasonably good but the steering gave absolutely zero feedback and transitioned very quickly from feeling reasonably weighted around the straight ahead position to being disturbingly light as soon as any lock was applied. The turning circle was also quite massive for a car of its size which made navigating the narrow streets of Corleone a real chore. The one redeeming feature of the car was the very smooth and refined 4-pot diesel which would pull quite hard with absolutely no vibration or harshness from just over 1,000rpm. Impressive.

Overall it was a great reminder as to the quality of design thinking that goes into Mercedes-Benz cars. Sometimes I think we're all guilty of forgetting quite how good that is, and how much it does to make our lives as owners more pleasant. I doubt you'll be seeing me in a Fiat dealership any time soon.

 

[crockers]

Basic W204 220 cdi elegance - +£10,000 more than Fiat ....before any discounts and I'm sure Fiat will give big ones on that car. Plus thats a manual Merc v auto Fiat so add another £1500 to the Merc..

Bit like comparing apples and pears - both fruit but then the comparison ends.

 

[Dieselman]

Basic W204 220 cdi elegance - +£10,000 more than Fiat ....before any discounts and I'm sure Fiat will give big ones on that car.

Bit like comparing apples and pears - both fruit but then the comparison ends.

Spoilsport...

 

[st13phil]

Basic W204 220 cdi elegance - +£10,000 more than Fiat ....before any discounts and I'm sure Fiat will give big ones on that car. Plus thats a manual Merc v auto Fiat so add another £1500 to the Merc..

Bit like comparing apples and pears - both fruit but then the comparison ends.

You miss my point. I wasn't comparing the W204 and the Bravo, but rather the obvious difference in standards of design between the two marques. If it makes it easier to see the context, consider the comments I made about the Bravo against the similarly priced A-Class. The A-Class doesn't suffer the sort of design deficiencies that the Fiat does.

 

[davidjpowell]

but then compare a more 'experienced' manufactuer, say a ford Focus with a Mercedes model and the difference will not be so significant.

 

[EDZ649]

What did you expect, it was a Fiat after all

 

[st13phil]

but then compare a more 'experienced' manufactuer, say a ford Focus with a Mercedes model and the difference will not be so significant.

Precisely. Ford, GM and VW are all capable of designing good cars, and make a good fist of manufacturing them too. The Fiat was a real triumph of style over substance.

 

[Noodle-Pulp]

I had a Bravo 90 ELX from the company I was working for once and the only problem I had was when the police stopped me for looking suspiciously like a burglar about to break into a nearby house (I'd stopped to eat a sandwich for lunch just off the A3 at Painshill).

I did ask the nice policeman "who on earth would consider the Bravo a suitable getaway vehicle", and he shook his head and simply said, "well, we get allsorts these days".

 

[Tiff]

What did you expect, it was a Fiat after all

 

[crockers]

Precisely. Ford, GM and VW are all capable of designing good cars, and make a good fist of manufacturing them too. The Fiat was a real triumph of style over substance.

So are many Fiat marques - Alfa for instance. Only Fiat I like have a prancing horse on them......

Not true -- I think Alfas look great too ...just having owned two in the '80s --- NEVER AGAIN...

 

[Laters]

I know a million miles from the current fiat's but I was lucky to own a fiat tipo in the mid 90.s.
It was the top of the range diesel model with the digital dashboard.

The engine a 1.9 td was superb. The rest of the car was shocking. It suffered from the same ride qualaties as above. Soft and soggy but still very non complient, the paint fell off revealing powdery galvo that didn't work. Plus switches and controls that were haphazardly placed and broke after a few uses. All at 2 years old with 20,000 miles on the clock.

I had it for 6 weeks and after that decided enough was enough and never again.

Best bit was it was the car that was voted car of the year and was supposed to be the turning point for fiat.

 

[snoop51]

I know a million miles from the current fiat's but I was lucky to own a fiat tipo in the mid 90.s.
It was the top of the range diesel model with the digital dashboard.

The engine a 1.9 td was superb. The rest of the car was shocking. It suffered from the same ride qualaties as above. Soft and soggy but still very non complient, the paint fell off revealing powdery galvo that didn't work. Plus switches and controls that were haphazardly placed and broke after a few uses. All at 2 years old with 20,000 miles on the clock.

I had it for 6 weeks and after that decided enough was enough and never again.

Best bit was it was the car that was voted car of the year and was supposed to be the turning point for fiat.

I had a Fiat Tipo as a hire car in Germany around the same time, torrential rain (I'm talking stair rods) and the electrics got water in, wipers stopped working, not goo on the autobahn at 100kph.
I had to pull over until the rain stopped , within 1/2 an hour the electrics dried out and the wipers started working again. I've never owned a Fiat of any description (including prancing horse types) because of that one experience.

 

[Dieselman]

I know a million miles from the current fiat's but I was lucky to own a fiat tipo in the mid 90.s.
It was the top of the range diesel model with the digital dashboard.
the paint fell off revealing powdery galvo that didn't work. Plus switches and controls that were haphazardly placed and broke after a few uses.

Rubbish.

We kept our Tipo for 16 years because it refused to die and the paint was perfect as far as adhesion goes. The only rust on the whole car was after a moody accident repair.

It used to suffer silly little faults, but nothing major went wrong in all that time.

 

[Laters]

Rubbish.

We kept our Tipo for 16 years because it refused to die and the paint was perfect as far as adhesion goes. The only rust on the whole car was after a moody accident repair.

It used to suffer silly little faults, but nothing major went wrong in all that time.

One of the reasons I got the car was my mates dad had the same car and his experience was same as yours.

However my car was complete opposite, maybe a friday afternoon car who knows.

Paint on door edges literally wiped off when cleaning the cat (rest of paint looked good).

I wasnt best pleased as I was planning to keep the car long term at the time.

Heater control gears broke daily (in fairness I never got chatged for the repacment few I fitted). Plus fog lamp indicator stalks failed. It had 2 in my breif ownership.

Sorry but that was the way it was.

 

[wxmclk]

I have to agree with the comments in general- they are pretty shoddy motors. That said I still think they are better than Renault.

 

[Noodle-Pulp]

I had a Bravo 90 ELX from the company I was working for

Correction: this was a Punto, not a Bravo.

 

[bingo999]

i took the corsa i own out for a drive last night and it reminded me how many miles apart that compared to the S class it really is, its a great little car but it rides like it has no suspension and suffers reliability issues constantly. but i have poured my heart and soul into her and love the corsa even with its many faults (also the car has 2 sharks in the glove box.. pretty cool stuff!)

 

[DITTRICH]

Sicily is only 2 days away by car.
I took my w202 there once for a week.
Apart from traffic light windscreen washers in palermo I had no problems.
But you have to like driving...

As to the design quality of the italian cars, the lack of backwards visibility would not be seen as a disavantage as the italians are going so fast all their concentration is directed forwards. Plus I suspect at least the horn and the brakes aren't too bad.

 

[Dieselman]

Plus I suspect at least the horn and the brakes aren't too bad.

Very true for the horn...our lowly Tipo had fantastic twin horns.

 

[st13phil]

Apart from traffic light windscreen washers in palermo I had no problems.

I noticed two particularly effective techniques to dissuade the windscreen washers while I was there: Firstly, scowl at them through the screen while mouthing "no" and (this is the critical bit) wave the index finger of your left hand at them at the same time. If this fails and they still put their squeegy on your screen, turn on the wipers

As to the design quality of the italian cars, the lack of backwards visibility would not be seen as a disavantage as the italians are going so fast all their concentration is directed forwards. Plus I suspect at least the horn and the brakes aren't too bad.

Yup, the horn worked well and the brakes were ok too

The driving in Palermo looks chaotic (and sounds it, too!) but it's actually not that bad once you get into the swing of things. Pretty much every car there has multiple dings, dents, and scrapes but the vast majority of touches clearly happen at low speed so there doesn't seem to be the carnage that may otherwise be expected. Successfully navigating junctions relies less on right of way and more on gently nosing in until you are ahead of another vehicle at which point they gently defer; prolific use of the horn to draw attention to your path is also a must

Overall, while Palermo was very congested at rush hour, I found the driving there to be much less agressive than it is in, say, Valetta.