First car change in 15 years

[DITTRICH]

Due to Mrs D's unfortunate s124 "experience", Mr Khan's ULEZ, and Brexit created buying opportunities, I have taken the plunge and purchased a newer car... an ex lease 2016 s205 c200se petrol with Garmin Satnav. It was owned by a Roadchef manager or director (per the accounting fixed asset number in the glove box) and has spent the last 3 years doing a lot of motorway miles - 150k of them. New it was £33k but I got it for just over £9k. I cannot understand why the manager chose a petrol over a diesel but there you go. One "owner", one company and FMBSH. I could have gone for an older s212 for less money but reasoned that the younger car will pay for itself in lower VED, fewer electrical issues, and if its still okay after 150k, then it should be OK at 250k. It has and M274 in it, and if there was going to be an inherent problem with it, I reason that it would already have happened.

I thought it would be useful to share my observations on what is for me space age technology compared to the s124 and w202. Note the w202 is being kept for 1 year for Mrs D or until it gives up the ghost. If it survives, I will sell it for scrap money - a cheap motor for someone in the countryside.

s124 3 litre diesel (no turbo) 4 speed auto 55mph motorway driving 45mpg
w202 2.3 litre petrol kompressor 5 speed auto 55mph motorway driving 35mpg
s205 2 litre petrol (turbo?) 7 speed auto 55mph motorway driving 61.4mpg over 177 miles.
Amazingly, for me, on the economy drive program, it goes into glide mode when you take your foot off the accelerator, and the auto disengages and the revs fall to 700 until you need to some help to go uphill.
The instantaneous mpg indicator was kept at 60mpg+ most of the time. My fuel bill is going to almost halve. The VED is £125 vs £250 for the other cars. Again costs halved. Even though I could have bought a car for £5k less, if the s205 lasts 10 years I have saved a lot of money.

The only downside is working out what space saver to buy and no underfloor space or rear wing space to put it in. I may even decide it is easier just to put a full size 16" alloy wheel in the boot for longer journeys or holidays. I could buy a set of alloys and tires for £250 off of ebay or just £70 for a full sized spare. I have seen space saver kits for £135 all in. Buying the bits from the dealer is a fools errand so I just have to ensure that what I buy is OEM and the wheels fit properly.

The biggest thing is that the gears are no longer on the centre console but on a stalk. My left hand is not yet attuned to this. There is no more parking brake or release lever.

The 7 speed auto is so smooth compared to the other cars 5 speed and 4 speed autos.
Eco start stop is a bit of a pain, but I am slowly getting used to it.
The digital dials for fuel and temperature are not as finely graduated as my older analogue dials.
The seats are now semi electric and now I've figured out how to alter them, its not too bad.
At this stage I am still developing a feel for the car as to what the "normal" sounds are. I'm just too used to my old cars. Early days...but it is growing on me.
The manual is a mare and there are more buttons now to get to grips with, and I don't know where anything is any more under the bonnet. A lot of reading to be done, but overall I am very pleased. I had to travel to Doncaster from London to view the car, but it was worth it.

I need to see if I can have the whole of Europe and Russia on the Garmin too.

Overall, a happy bunny.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Useful post.

A lot of older car lovers and EV Evangelists still haven't come to terms with genuine 60+mpg fuel consumption from modern petrol engines.

I chatted to a new Tesla S owner this week who thought that his 240 mile range from £16 worth of electricity (from an expensive charger) was something game changing. The reality is still, sadly, not quite that simple.

 

[Londonscottish]

Due to Mrs D's unfortunate s124 "experience", Mr Khan's ULEZ, and Brexit created buying opportunities, I have taken the plunge and purchased a newer car... an ex lease 2016 s205 c200se petrol with Garmin Satnav. It was owned by a Roadchef manager or director (per the accounting fixed asset number in the glove box) and has spent the last 3 years doing a lot of motorway miles - 150k of them. New it was £33k but I got it for just over £9k. I cannot understand why the manager chose a petrol over a diesel but there you go. One "owner", one company and FMBSH. I could have gone for an older s212 for less money but reasoned that the younger car will pay for itself in lower VED, fewer electrical issues, and if its still okay after 150k, then it should be OK at 250k. It has and M274 in it, and if there was going to be an inherent problem with it, I reason that it would already have happened.

I thought it would be useful to share my observations on what is for me space age technology compared to the s124 and w202. Note the w202 is being kept for 1 year for Mrs D or until it gives up the ghost. If it survives, I will sell it for scrap money - a cheap motor for someone in the countryside.

s124 3 litre diesel (no turbo) 4 speed auto 55mph motorway driving 45mpg
w202 2.3 litre petrol kompressor 5 speed auto 55mph motorway driving 35mpg
s205 2 litre petrol (turbo?) 7 speed auto 55mph motorway driving 61.4mpg over 177 miles.
Amazingly, for me, on the economy drive program, it goes into glide mode when you take your foot off the accelerator, and the auto disengages and the revs fall to 700 until you need to some help to go uphill.
The instantaneous mpg indicator was kept at 60mpg+ most of the time. My fuel bill is going to almost halve. The VED is £125 vs £250 for the other cars. Again costs halved. Even though I could have bought a car for £5k less, if the s205 lasts 10 years I have saved a lot of money.

The only downside is working out what space saver to buy and no underfloor space or rear wing space to put it in. I may even decide it is easier just to put a full size 16" alloy wheel in the boot for longer journeys or holidays. I could buy a set of alloys and tires for £250 off of ebay or just £70 for a full sized spare. I have seen space saver kits for £135 all in. Buying the bits from the dealer is a fools errand so I just have to ensure that what I buy is OEM and the wheels fit properly.

The biggest thing is that the gears are no longer on the centre console but on a stalk. My left hand is not yet attuned to this. There is no more parking brake or release lever.

The 7 speed auto is so smooth compared to the other cars 5 speed and 4 speed autos.
Eco start stop is a bit of a pain, but I am slowly getting used to it.
The digital dials for fuel and temperature are not as finely graduated as my older analogue dials.
The seats are now semi electric and now I've figured out how to alter them, its not too bad.
At this stage I am still developing a feel for the car as to what the "normal" sounds are. I'm just too used to my old cars. Early days...but it is growing on me.
The manual is a mare and there are more buttons now to get to grips with, and I don't know where anything is any more under the bonnet. A lot of reading to be done, but overall I am very pleased. I had to travel to Doncaster from London to view the car, but it was worth it.

I need to see if I can have the whole of Europe and Russia on the Garmin too.

Overall, a happy bunny.

Nice. And it goes to show how good a modern petrol engine actually is. The original owner could no doubt charge back the fuel used for work and/or had a fuel card.

If he's only paying for private miles (and they may only be at 40% if he has a fuel card) then the benefit of diesel economy would have been marginal. So it comes down to refinement where petrol wins.

 

[190]

I can beat you on the 15 years but not the MPG. I ran a W201 for 21 years, missed out 2 generations of C class and changed it for a C180K W204. Given the added weight and vastly improved performance, the Fuel economy of the W204 is remarkable although it's something of an unfair comparison as the W204 never sees any short trips under 10 miles or town driving while the 190E did.

Part of the reason I have seen such a big improvement is the number of gear ratios. The 4 speed autos were pretty hopeless with no lock up in top and 1st being so low that for most practical purposes they were a only 3 speed. I could count on the digits of one hand the number of times 1st was engaged in 21 years. A 5 speed manual 190E had a much better spread of gears and would have added 5 MPG to my figures. 1st is still stupidly low on the w204 so that's one trait MB haven't grown out of yet. I imagine the same is true for 7 speed autos but they are better placed to waste a gear.

190E 2 litre petrol 4 speed auto worst full tank 27.11 MPG Best full tank 41.65 MPG Average over 21 years 32.73 MPG

W204 1.6 litre petrol Kompressor 6 speed manual Worst full tank 38.2 MPG best full tank 55.6 MPG Average over 5 years 46.26 MPG

 

[clk208]

£9000 for a 2016 petrol, sounds like you got a great buy.

They are definitely an attractive car.

Enjoy!

 

[DITTRICH]

I can beat you on the 15 years but not the MPG. I ran a W201 for 21 years, missed out 2 generations of C class and changed it for a C180K W204. Given the added weight and vastly improved performance, the Fuel economy of the W204 is remarkable although it's something of an unfair comparison as the W204 never sees any short trips under 10 miles or town driving while the 190E did.

Part of the reason I have seen such a big improvement is the number of gear ratios. The 4 speed autos were pretty hopeless with no lock up in top and 1st being so low that for most practical purposes they were a only 3 speed. I could count on the digits of one hand the number of times 1st was engaged in 21 years. A 5 speed manual 190E had a much better spread of gears and would have added 5 MPG to my figures. 1st is still stupidly low on the w204 so that's one trait MB haven't grown out of yet. I imagine the same is true for 7 speed autos but they are better placed to waste a gear.

190E 2 litre petrol 4 speed auto worst full tank 27.11 MPG Best full tank 41.65 MPG Average over 21 years 32.73 MPG

W204 1.6 litre petrol Kompressor 6 speed manual Worst full tank 38.2 MPG best full tank 55.6 MPG Average over 5 years 46.26 MPG

Thanks for the really useful mpg figures. I am impressed with your 42 mpg in the 190E! To be strictly fair, I did once manage 42mpg in the C230K but this was mainly coasting down the Italian side of the Grand St Bernard pass so I don't really count it. I used to pump up the tires to 40psi for very long journeys which helped. I have done alot of Europe and even went to Russia in the s124 and c230k so they are well travelled cars (!).

 

[DITTRICH]

A lot of older car lovers and EV Evangelists still haven't come to terms with genuine 60+mpg fuel consumption from modern petrol engines.

I am still pinching myself hoping that the 61.4mpg will be confirmed when I fill up next time! After all the diesel shenanigans and press about how quoted mileage figures are way higher than in practice, I am hopeful that it may prove to be correct.

 

[A-AvantGarde]

Sounds like a great buy congratulations!

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I am still pinching myself hoping that the 61.4mpg will be confirmed when I fill up next time!

To be fair, you were talking about motorway mileage. in that kind of context, it should be a feasible number. More for day to day stuff, for sure, but for motorway cruising, why not?

 

[bpsorrel]

Sounds like a great deal there! Maybe we'll see you in Vladimir with it one day again!
Just got back last night as it happens and I reckon you and Mrs D would like the changes since you last came!

Best of luck and joy with the new car!

 

[zipdip]

Well I am sure it will be a good car for the op,but I have a phobia about buying a car with that much mileage on it,I well know that modern cars can do big mileages but I started my car ownership when engines started to puff at 90,000 or less in some cases,looking at what C200's are about I would if I wanted one pay £6000 more for a car with 120,000 miles less,sorry thats me.

 

[Will]

I think the trouble is people associate mileages with how long an engine lasts.

In the majority of cases, most ‘engines’ last the duration of a cars lifetime. It’s the ancillaries which usually need replacing - eg turbos, glow plugs, injectors, EGR valves etc on modern diesels. Petrol engines tend to be more reliable in that sense although some of the newer stuff is/was getting more complex in recent years - eg direct injection and additional sensors etc.

But back to the OP - 60mpg+ might seem good for a motorway run, but remember petrol engines use an awful lot more fuel on the warm up cycle and are less efficient than diesels. I would expect closer to half that for a realistic average in normal use?

Hopefully the reliability offsets some of that with lower repair costs

I’ve driven a (2019) model S205 C200 around with the later ‘EQ boost’ engine, 1.5L with mild hybrid (184hp).

Drives fine, punchy enough for everyday use but surprisingly not great on fuel. It’s currently averaging less than 30mpg combined and that’s with a little bit of motorway use now and then. Like I say, it’s the cold starts that kill the consumption figures!

 

[190]

I’ve driven a (2019) model S205 C200 around with the later ‘EQ boost’ engine, 1.5L with mild hybrid (184hp).

Drives fine, punchy enough for everyday use but surprisingly not great on fuel. It’s currently averaging less than 30mpg combined and that’s with a little bit of motorway use now and then. Like I say, it’s the cold starts that kill the consumption figures!

Modern forced induction petrol engines give almost diesel like MPG figures at a steady cruise on the flat but show them a steep hill or a lot of acceleration due to stop start conditions and MPG plummets. Besides mixture enrichment, any trip less than 10 miles won't get the engine and transmission oils up to temperature so that's bound to reduce MPG. Even still I regularly get 40+ MPG on a 10 mile mainly open road trip from a cold start. I tend to view anything less than 10 miles as a mild form of abuse which is where EV's win hands down as they will be efficient right from the off.

The latest direct injection turbo engines may give miraculous MPG figures at steady cruise but you can't beat the laws of physics when it comes to accelerating 1.5 tons or dragging it up a steep incline. Under these more adverse conditions I doubt they are much better than older engines.

 

[400ixl]

55mph on a motorway. No wonder so many HGV's are blocking up the middle lane.

 

[DITTRICH]

55mph on a motorway. No wonder so many HGV's are blocking up the middle lane.

I'm pretty sure that it is legal and considerate to use the left hand lane at the same speed as the vast majority of HGVs. I wasn't on cruise control for the entire journey. The average is my perception of the speed I was travelling at which was in the range 50 mph-65 mph.

 

[DITTRICH]

Sounds like a great deal there! Maybe we'll see you in Vladimir with it one day again!
Just got back last night as it happens and I reckon you and Mrs D would like the changes since you last came!
Best of luck and joy with the new car!

I am hoping for Russia in the car in 2020 and would be glad to meet up again.

 

[DITTRICH]

Well I am sure it will be a good car for the op,but I have a phobia about buying a car with that much mileage on it,I well know that modern cars can do big mileages but I started my car ownership when engines started to puff at 90,000 or less in some cases,looking at what C200's are about I would if I wanted one pay £6000 more for a car with 120,000 miles less,sorry thats me.

Mercedes petrol engines since 2001 have had their fair share of trouble - timing chains, balance shafts and so on. My logic is that if there was going to be a problem, it would have manifested itself within the mileage already driven. So long as I religiously change the engine oil and don't abuse the engine, I hope to see another 15 years out of the car.

 

[beege]

I think the trouble is people associate mileages with how long an engine lasts.

In the majority of cases, most ‘engines’ last the duration of a cars lifetime. It’s the ancillaries which usually need replacing - eg turbos, glow plugs, injectors, EGR valves etc on modern diesels. Petrol engines tend to be more reliable in that sense although some of the newer stuff is/was getting more complex in recent years - eg direct injection and additional sensors etc.

But back to the OP - 60mpg+ might seem good for a motorway run, but remember petrol engines use an awful lot more fuel on the warm up cycle and are less efficient than diesels. I would expect closer to half that for a realistic average in normal use?

Hopefully the reliability offsets some of that with lower repair costs

I’ve driven a (2019) model S205 C200 around with the later ‘EQ boost’ engine, 1.5L with mild hybrid (184hp).

Drives fine, punchy enough for everyday use but surprisingly not great on fuel. It’s currently averaging less than 30mpg combined and that’s with a little bit of motorway use now and then. Like I say, it’s the cold starts that kill the consumption figures!

I’ve got a 2018 C200 estate with the 1.5L engine, average is 34.8mpg over 10k miles, probably just under half of which are motorway miles. I am pretty light on the throttle though.

 

[Will]

That’s what I mean, 34.8mpg average for someone with light throttle usage and about half motorway miles on a 1.5L engine isn’t all that great considering all the stop start/mild hybrid ‘EQ boost’ technology - it’s supposed to be designed with economy/efficiency in mind?

Older larger non-hybrid diesels would do far better than that, despite the emissions concerns. I guess it comes down to other costs involved with running either models (petrol/diesel) as the consumption figures aren’t great on this model.

I’ve always been more impressed with larger petrol engines that can average reasonably decent mpg personally, to me if you’re running a small 4-cylinder engine you probably want decent consumption to offset the lower performance otherwise I can’t see the appeal

 

[Petrol Pete]

I'm pretty sure that it is legal and considerate to use the left hand lane at the same speed as the vast majority of HGVs. I wasn't on cruise control for the entire journey. The average is my perception of the speed I was travelling at which was in the range 50 mph-65 mph.

Its legal , but not clever. Time and again I see some dupe doing 55 mph sandwiched between two HGV's in lane one thinking he is saving fuel, while I am thinking if this goes pear shape you are the meat in a 60 tonne sandwich.

Each to their own but this is probably the most boring thread I have ever read on this forum.

I'm out.