Ford Mustang 4L V6 Rental

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wookiepelt, Oct 15, 2008.

  1. Wookiepelt

    Wookiepelt Active Member

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    How can the US carmakers get it SOOOOO wrong?!?

    I'm currently over in the States on a two day business trip and got a 2007 Ford Mustang 4L V6 as a rental from Hertz. What a disappointment for a 4,000cc supposed muscle-car! A lot of noise but not very much under the hood!!! Step on the gas and nothing happens.... seriously! :confused:

    I just checked the specs on the Mustang site and was very surprised to find that they'e only managed to get 210 SAE net horsepower and 240 ft-lb (equivalent of 325Nm) torque out of their 4,000cc engine! This is a far cry from my "mere-mortal" S211 E280 CDI Estate (station-wagon as they call it here) which has 190hp/440Nm torque out of a 2,987cc engine!

    An the interior feels so fake as well. Imagine this, the odometer still uses what looks like LED digit displays!

    Well, it still dark out (i.e. only 4:30am over here) but I'll grab some snap shots of the "muscle-car" later in the morning and post it here for all to view...


    Ah well, one more day
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2008
  2. Mudster

    Mudster Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    That'll be emission regulations......
     
  3. AANDYY

    AANDYY Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Should have got the V8:p

    I can vouch for that, even though I've only been a passenger.:)
     
  4. glojo

    glojo MB Club Veteran

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    You sound just like Jeremy Clarkson.

    That review is about a convertible that he hired in America but that was only a 2.7litre petrol rag top
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Wookiepelt

    Wookiepelt Active Member

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    OMG!!! :eek:
     
  6. Mactech

    Mactech Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I fear you are not alone in finding cars in the USA a real dissapointment:(
    Anyone who has experienced some quality European cars will feel this way when they come across the 'pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap' US fodder.
    I had a V8 T'bird when I was there a little while ago, and now understand the American term POS:eek:
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Wookiepelt

    Wookiepelt Active Member

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    I just found his review on the Mustang...
    His verdict - Horrid but very loveable!
     
  8. popuptoaster

    popuptoaster Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Thats the stretched cologne v6 in them, we got them as 2.8's in the capri's where they were also underpowered, they make well over 300bhp if you modify them to accept the cosworth 2.9's 24v heads (which makes 200bhp from 1 litre less!)

    Pretty much all american engines are under tuned, as are the aussie ones, it comes from needing a big lazy engine to cope with the huge distances its possible to drive in those countries and its just what they got used to, they have as much potential as any of our engines, the Chevy LS series engines are super tunable, the LS7 is a 7 litre that makes 500bhp and 450lb/ft and still does 28mpg in the 'vette, but it only needs a few bits to push it over 650bhp and is easily possible to take over a 1000bhp with a turbo or two.

    yes as standard they are pretty much all strangled and underpowered, but most of em will easily do over 200,000 miles with no bother and they are cheap to make (most of the cars feel cheap as well unfortunately)
     
  9. superaquarama

    superaquarama New Member

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    Although we have a '68 Mustang 289 convertible and I far prefer it to the '65 230SL we once had !!
     
  10. smillion

    smillion Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    A fellow Classic Mustang Owner ! I have a 1966 V8 coupe. Perhaps bump into you on www.mocgb.co.uk ?

    Marc
     
  11. Robbie T

    Robbie T Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    My neighbour has a 2006 V8 Mustang and it's a lovely car. They're rated at 300bhp from factory, he had his rolling roaded standard at 324bhp and with a few extras it really shifts.

    Having said that, it can't do corners :p
     
  12. pint6x

    pint6x Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I rented a 4.6 litre V8 for my 20th wedding anniversary from a chap in Essex - I have to say I loved it - it was a manual, it had 300bhp and it sounded fantastic.

    It was a bit plasticky inside, but everything worked, and I loved the retro-look instruments.

    It also accelerated like a bat out of hell - loved it.
     

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  13. NewMB

    NewMB Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Well, I have just come back from a week long business trip to Indiana, Kentucky & Ohio and were given a Ford Explorer 4.0L V6, also with 210 SEA hp (same engine I think). 5 speed auto....sluggish and just awful plastics inside. No way they could sell that in Europe.

    Pretty good on fuel though, but just bad bad bad car I think :crazy: :eek:

    However, very very good stereo and air cond!
     
  14. popuptoaster

    popuptoaster Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    They do sell the 4 litre explorer here, best use for it is to nick the 4x4 gearbox and chuck it in a suzuki SJ, bolt the 24v cossie V6 on the front and go OFF-ROAD. :D

    (I believe the yanks have nick-named them the Ford Exploder for some reason.)
     
  15. pint6x

    pint6x Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    This was because the OE tyres fitted (Firestone if memory serves) had a habit of exploding, resulting in a massive multi-million dollar lawsuit between Ford and Firestone.

    I'm not quite sure what the outcome was, but I'm sure the lawyers got rich :mad:
     
  16. superaquarama

    superaquarama New Member

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    Yes, Marc, I do get on that forum from time to time as '68 Sprint' !
     
  17. cjab98

    cjab98 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    When I drove a Mustang V6 I quite liked it, was pleasantly surprised by it but then I wasn't expecting much and was used to a 306 wiesel at the time. I wouldn't buy one, but I like them more than any econohatch rental that we get over here. For US$ 20,000 (approx £11,000) its a lot of car for the money.

    Also I don't quite see the point of comparing a naturally aspirated petrol engine to a turbocharged diesel engine:confused:
     
  18. Pook

    Pook New Member

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    Morning everyone. I've been reading this forum for a few days as my friend "aandyy" in blackpool has recently bought a E Class, and he pointed this thread out to me.

    As a Mustang owner, I feel I should set some things straight and try to explain what the car is all about: I'll probably end up writing a few thousand words here, as once I get my teeth into something I find it hard to stop. However.. read on if you're interested. Stop right here if you're not.

    1st up, the V6 Mustang: It's the base model. You judging a car by it's base model? Allow me to point out some differences.

    The V6 (unless it has the "Pony Package" upgrades) has the worst interior of any car ever. A depressing sea of black plastic.

    The V6 has no anti-roll bars

    The V6 has useless brakes

    The V6 is underpowered by it's useless cologne derived engine.

    The V6 is crippled by overly long gears for cruising economy (although in reality it's actually no more economical than the V8)

    You were also driving an auto V6.... BIG mistake.

    ----


    The V8 however, has a much upgraded interior

    The V8 has anti-roll bars

    The V8 Very large brakes in comparison

    The V8 uses Ford's award winning "Modular" V8 engine that although only produces around 100bhp more gets it from 0-60 in around 5 seconds dead. In gear times a phenomenal, as is it's low range torque.

    The V8 has a lower diff ratio and closer ratio gears (in the manual version)


    Plus... you probably rented an auto V6 which makes it even worse. Anyone with any sense buys a manual Mustang... always have.. even in the US. This car is sold as manual standard, and you pay extra for an auto box.

    As for handling... There's not really anything wrong with it if you keep in mind what it's designed for. The V6 has no anti roll bars, so you can't judge the Mustang by the V6. The solid rear axle it has doesn't really cause that many problems. Ford CHOSE a solid rear because that's what people wanted. Remember, the Mustang is a muscle car, not a track weapon. It's designed to look good, sound good, and be very fast on a drag strip.... where extra unsprung weight of a live axle actually helps. You have to remember, the Cobra Mustangs had independent rear, and it wasn't as fast as other Mustangs with live axles. It's not the be all and end all.

    People say the same about the Corvette though, because it has leaf springs, yet the ZR1 laps the Nurburg ring in 7:26.... despite this Europeans still laugh.. which in turn makes me laugh :)


    The fact is, people who buy a new Mercedes are bound to hate the Mustang. Different mindset entirely. People buy a Mercedes because they want something discreet, elegant, and regarded as a "prestige" marque. People who buy a Mustang don't want, or are indeed interested in any of those things. Allow me to use an analogy:

    The Mercedes is a man dressed in a bespoke silk suit.. immaculate... A hint of a Breitling watch peeking out from under his cuff. He's well groomed, shaved, smells good. He's wearing handmade leather brogues, and speaks softly, but well articulated.

    The Mustang wears a checked shirt, belches a lot, smells faintly of beer and sweat, and he shouts a great deal.

    If you wanted someone to invest your money, or perform an operation on your heart, you'd probably assume the first man would be the one who you'd rather trust. If you wanted a tree felling, you'd probably assume the latter would be your man.

    That's not to say it's a reflection of the owners of these vehicles.. but rather the owner's perception of the vehicles.. or to be even more analytical, the owner's idea of how other people perceive them... or maybe how I think Mercedes owners think... Jesus... I'm confusing myself now.. LOL. I think you see where I'm going however.

    Cars are not, or ever have been just the sum of their parts. Some are of course... but by far and away the majority of car buying decisions have nothing to do with mere facts, figures, and common sense. If that was the case, no one would actually buy a Mercedes because you're paying a huge permium for what is essentually not a very well built car. Don't get me wrong.. I'm not saying it's a bad car.. I'm just saying that the top of the range Mondeo is every bit as good as the top of the range C Class (excluing AMG versions because there's no equivalent Mondeo to compare it to) yet you pay a great deal less for it. What the Mondeo doesn't have, is the badge. It can't command the same premium price because it doesn't have the same brand image.

    Enter the Mustang.... LOL.. Mustang owners don't give a rat's ass about image.. not the kind of image Mercedes owners are interested in anyway. To wrap your mind around what this car is about, here's a snippet from Ford's Pre-Launch blurb.... "The rear suspension is designed to prevent unwanted axle hop and provide skip-free launches during those long, smoky burnouts". Imagine reading that in a Mercedes brochure?

    It's a hooligan of a car. It's crude, noisy, very simple, but it does look stunning, sounds stunning, and people love it. It's a motoring icon. Everyone recognises it and loves it, from small children to tartan bag weilding old ladies. People smile, cheer, wave, take photographs and video. People come up to me and talk to me about it whereever I go. You get none of that with a mercedes. People buy a merc for exlusivity and prestige, yet they're as common as telegraph poles. I can drive from one end of the country to the other and not see another Mustang. I've never seen people cheer and wave when a Mercedes drives past.


    You say it feels cheap inside? Well.. newsflash... it IS cheap. Brand new.. £25k for the V8 GT version, and the V6 in question... £16K!!!! . What did you expect? For that kind of money I can forgive it's idiosyncracies. plus... remember how much you paid for you new Mercedes? Ouch... if that wasn't bad enough.. how much would you lose if you sold it now? I can sell mine for almost as much as I bought it for almost 2 years ago. That's depreciation most people dream about, but I can think of no other volume manufactured car that depreciates less.

    In short... in a way, you're right. As a technical exercise it's a terrible car, but.... That's not the point. If you want to bore people to suicide at dinner parties about why your car is technically superior, then go ahead, but remember this....

    Lt.Frank Bullit didn't drive a Mercedes; Wilson Picket never wrote a song called "Mercedes Margaret"; Germany never produced a P.R poster saying "Kraftwerk, Sauerkraut, and the S211 E280 CDI Estate: Three things worth fighting for"....


    .....It's got soul. Your Mercedes doesn't. It's cool... your Mercedes isn't.


    If you identify with none of the above then just accept the fact that you never will, move on and enjoy your Mercedes. :)


    Thank you for listening.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2008
  19. glojo

    glojo MB Club Veteran

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    Thank you very much indeed for taking the time to write that excellent message but it leaves me asking the question,

    WHY??

    Why produce a car that is a dog when the whole being of owning, or driving a Mustang is..... all about riding a stallion. :)

    Why do it?

    If folks cannot afford the more powerful option then why dump down the standards?

    We are now living in the 21st century where a 3.0ltr V6 coupled to either an automatic gearbox or a clutchless manual (DSG) can be a lean, mean flying machine. The American choice.

    Regards
    John
     
  20. Pook

    Pook New Member

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    To answer your question, look closer to home. What is the "essence" of Mercedes-Benz? What does it connote? Think carefully about this..... "Mercedes-Benz"... Want to know what comes to my mind?

    Diplomats being wafted from one dinner party to the next.

    Grace Kelly in a SL roadster with her silk scarf blowing around

    Elegance

    Grace

    Power

    Efficiency

    German Engineering


    Now... you're probably nodding sagely, and saying, "Yes.. I agree... that's what I think when I think of Mercedes-Benz also".

    Good.... Now go to Google.... click on Images.... then type in "Mercedes A-Class" and then try your damnedest to reconcile the above connotations with the.... thing that's on your screen.


    So.. why did Ford release a crippled, under-powered version of their legendary muscle car? For the same reason Mercedes sell the A-Class. To cash in on a marque in a frugal, economically, ecologically uncertain world.

    Let's be honest... Formula 1 sponsorship and the caché derived from high end models is what sells A-Classes.

    Heritage, legend, and the V8 powered muscle cars sell the low end V6 versions in the US.

    Unfortunately, accountants run car businesses, and low volume high end cars sell the mass produced versions that actually make the cash.

    You can find similar examples in most car manufacturer's line ups. The BMW 1 series.... LOL... The Ultimate Driving machine? Nope... a very, very slow, badly designed alfa 147 rip off that looks like a sagging sofa. Does it sell? Hell yes!! Gotta have that badge!!
     

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