Ford Transit MK6 Clutch Woes / Dual Mass Flywheel

[pmcgsmurf]

Our trusty old (2002) Ford Transit has been making a bit of a noise from the clutch for the past wee while.

We were not 100% sure if it had a Dual Mass Flywheel (DMF) fitted so we had decided we would drive it till it stops then take it from there.

Clutch pedal went to the floor yesterday so it was time to park it up and have a look.

Stripped it today for further investigation.
After we got the gearbox out, then the pressure plate we seen it had a DMF but we could not get to the bolts that held this on as it was locked at the wrong angle.
Had to get the grinder out and cut away sections so we could get into the bolts.

You can see here where we have had to cut.



Not too much wear on the friction plate but it would seem there is another reason for the catastrophic failure.
OK you can't see the pressure plate but you get the idea.



The release bearing / slave cylinder assembly is rotten and rusty, bearing sounded like metal to metal rubbing.





A look at behind the flywheel shows a lot of rust, looks like water is getting in at the top (Crank Position Sensor possible) and then pooling in the bell housing and rotting things. Need to investigate before we get it back together.



Quite an expensive/awkward repair this, £176 for a flywheel, £276 for a clutch/cylinder/bearing, £11 for bolts plus all the other little bits we have found to do with the front suspension.

I hate dealing with ECP but just seen that they may have the DMF for £110 so may give them a try again.
Should be able to get the clutch and cylinder cheaper as well so going to try and save what we can and spend the savings on suspension parts.

Wish us luck.

 

[ToeKnee]

While you have it all off, remove the starter motor and strip and clean it. Ford's are notorious for the dust from the dual mass flywheel getting into the starter motor and causing problems. You're already in bits so the extra few minutes work may be worthwhile.
Ps, if you look online you may be able to get a solid flywheel conversion, might last longer?

 

[martyz]

A solid flywheel was a common fix for transits of that era.

 

[ToeKnee]

A solid flywheel was a common fix for transits of that era.

I fitted one to a mondeo too!

 

[pmcgsmurf]

While you have it all off, remove the starter motor and strip and clean it. Ford's are notorious for the dust from the dual mass flywheel getting into the starter motor and causing problems. You're already in bits so the extra few minutes work may be worthwhile.
Ps, if you look online you may be able to get a solid flywheel conversion, might last longer?

Starter was changed not so long ago as it was all bunged up.
Problem with this one now is corrosion on the pinion, plenty time now to give this a good clean, soak and lubricate.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

A solid flywheel was a common fix for transits of that era.

I fitted one to a mondeo too!

Did consider changing it to a solid one but have just managed to get a DMF for £110 delivered.
Another £100 for the clutch kit, £40 for a new cylinder and £10 for bolts so a lot better at £260 all in.

Way I look at it is the DMF has been good in the van for many years so putting it back to the way it was should be good for the rest of the life of the van.

 

[st13phil]

id consider changing it to a solid one but have just managed to get a DMF

I've never been totally convinced by the advocates for swapping DMF's for solid flywheels. DMF's are indeed a complication, but they are used to control otherwise damaging torsional vibration in the driveline.

People need to remember that very few motor manufacturers will adopt a £1 solution when a 99-pence one will work just fine, so they sure as hell won't install a DMF that isn't strictly needed.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

I've never been totally convinced by the advocates for swapping DMF's for solid flywheels. DMF's are indeed a complication, but they are used to control otherwise damaging torsional vibration in the driveline.

People need to remember that very few motor manufacturers will adopt a £1 solution when a 99-pence one will work just fine, so they sure as hell won't install a DMF that isn't strictly needed.

I'm the same, it had worked well so does seem to do its job.

Could use the saying if it's not broke......... but on this occasion it is broke.

 

[ToeKnee]

For me, on the first clutch change (105k) the dmf was useable but quite worn so changed it while everything was apart. The second one (180k) the dmf was worn out before the clutch plate, changed both again, the third one (248k) I fitted a solid flywheel, only needed to change clutch then after 370k. Unfortunately wrote the car off before the next clutch change but had no extra problems with it being solid rather than dmf. Appreciate everyone is different though.

 

[Darrell]

I had a brand new Transit on a 54 plate. The DMF gave us trouble after about 25000 miles, Fords answer was “that’ll be the DMF“ like it was supposed to make things ok!!

The previous which was an R plate (1998??)
ran faultlessly and was only hampered by rust.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

New bits on the way, one is ECP so will see how that goes.

Picked the clutch kit up for £74.25 so that is a bonus.

Now trying to get an input shaft seal and a seal for the CPS which was where the water was getting in.
Local Ford dealer needs me to "go in" and and pay for it before they can order, looks like ebay then.

 

[st13phil]

Local Ford dealer needs me to "go in" and and pay for it before they can order

Not sure whether it’s still the case, but in the past Ford wouldn't accept the return of certain parts for credit from a dealer, so that may explain why they want payment up front. Can’t you do it with a card over the phone?

Related story: Back in the 1970's my father was a workshop manager for a Ford Main Dealer in the south-east. A storeman at the dealership had a falling out with the parts manager and was ”encouraged” to leave, which he did. However, as a parting gift he ordered from the factory for a fictitious customer a complete D600 truck engine - which he knew was non-returnable. Ouch.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Not sure whether it’s still the case, but in the past Ford wouldn't accept the return of certain parts for credit from a dealer, so that may explain why they want payment up front. Can’t you do it with a card over the phone?

Asked that, "no we can't take payment over the phone".
Can you send me a secure link to pay via I asked and got a no to that too.

No big deal, Ford dealer on ebay has the part for £1.65 less delivered so I will just order from there.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Dual Mass Flywheel arrived from ECP, not too bad for £110 delivered.

As a bonus it is the correct part.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Clutch kit arrived too, another bonus for only £74.25 delivered.
Just after this another man arrived with the LUK flywheel bolts.

DMF £110.54
Clutch £74.25
Bolts £12.39
Cylinder £36

Got some new diff. seals too, £9.24 and £13.20 for gearbox oil.
Quite pleased with the cost of everything.

Changing the front wishbones too (£40) and the bottom ball joints (£10) as seems to make sense with it stripped down and one side is knackered anyway.

While cleaning up the gearbox it appears there is a drain hole at the bottom that was caked up with solid DMF debris.
This perhaps explains why the water if it does get in is staying in rather than draining out.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Good news is new clutch is and, box back in and we have a clutch.

Motor factors gave me the wrong gearbox oil but luckily I checked this before opening so correct stuff tomorrow then a test run with the new clutch.

That's the good news.

Bad news is we went poking and prodding and the welding stuff is coming out next.

This is one of the worse areas.


Luckily we have the skills to do the repairs and it's not a restoration at the end of the day so no need to be as new.

 

[a111r]

Have I seen this on the MIG welding forum?

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Have I seen this on the MIG welding forum?

No, didn't know there was a MIG forum.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

More welding required....

Do not drive until repaired (dangerous defects):

• Offside Front Seat belt webbing significantly weakened (7.1.2 (b) (ii))
• Offside Rear Leaf spring main leaf fractured (5.3.1 (b) (ii))

Repair immediately (major defects):

• Offside Front Subframe mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength inner wing area (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Nearside Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength sill area (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Offside Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength sill area (5.3.6 (a) (i))

 

[Darrell]

More welding required....

Do not drive until repaired (dangerous defects):

• Offside Front Seat belt webbing significantly weakened (7.1.2 (b) (ii))
• Offside Rear Leaf spring main leaf fractured (5.3.1 (b) (ii))

Repair immediately (major defects):

• Offside Front Subframe mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength inner wing area (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Nearside Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength sill area (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Offside Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength sill area (5.3.6 (a) (i))

21 years old?. Get shot of it and do the world a favour.