Formula 1 Chit chat

[glojo]

The Alonso thread has got me thinking about Formula 1 but I do not like going off topic on that specific thread so decided to start a new one with hopefully lots of opinions, comments etc.

To start the ball rolling

What are the views about this years qualifying and engines?

I personally think qualifying is an improvement, BUT making engines last for more than one race is not what formula 1 should be about. There is going to be four fifteen minute sessions in qualifying where cars will have to avoid elimination, but at the same time the engine must be conserved. Blow an engine and loose ten places on the grid, UNLESS you qualify in a lowly position???

John

 

[W210 Fan]

The main thing wrong with F1 is the turbulent flow coming off the back of the car, this means its aerodynamically impossible to get close to the back of the car you want to overtake. This has just been fixed with an 80% reduction in aerodynamics but we will have to see what happens on track when this comes into play this year. This could have all been done a while back but Bernie was trying to buy some shares off a German bank for F1 which he had to sell a while back so to drop the share price so he made the sport look boring by making rules that favoured Micheal and being very lienient on things he did wrong. I am not taking anything away from Micheal he is a very talented driver but in my opinion Bernie is a bit bent which is why I will not work for an F1 team.

Anyway I digress. F1 is the blue ribbon motorsport event, there is always a toss up between development for us road users (did you know that for years race cars have carried sensors that record data in crashes that improve our cars?) and good racing. Letting the sport develop a lot means the team with the deepest wallet wins but a lot of new products and safety features end up in our cars. Having good racing stops development but generates lots of money from excited audiences. Look at the V8 supercar series in Australia, I love motorsport and this is what I watch, this really is wheel to wheel racing based on a simple format. Controlled tyres. No two races are the same in this series, some 1000K races, some 3 race sprints etc but you get given the tyres. Take a 30 lap sprint race, tyres go off after about 12-15 laps and all the cars are heavy and slide about a bit, few dented panels, those that look after the tyres will be up the results come the end of the day. This stops over zealous and expensive development because the only thing in contact with the ground is useless. There is also a shoot out which means the top 10 drivers can requalify to juggle the positions out, it also means their tyres have taken an extra pounding which gives the rest of the field a chance. Now F1 could adopt these rules but then us road users have the development of our tyres halted, think how shite tyres and brakes were 15 years ago, motorsport has funded the development and we reap the safety benefits so with F1 I think a good balance of letting teams develop for us without taking away the specticle as the future.

I have 1 idea,

1) Stop teams having track specific tyres, this is far too expensive for people like minardi, have you seen the tyre budget for an F1 team? 1 set of tyres for setup and one for race and qualifying, more than 1 supplier as this stops development.

Most of the other things floating in my head are going to be run this year, smaller engines, aerodynamic reduction etc.

 

[Rose Chap]

Just to help those of us who are a bit behind Glojo, what are the new qualifying rules? I've heard about the 2.4 litre V8 engines, which I think is a bit of a shame but I'm a bit fuzzy about the other technical rule changes and qualifying as I said.

Also, Bernie is indeed a bit bent and Max Mosely is starting to rival his father for lunancy. The sooner son-of-a-blackshirt gets out of Formula One the better if you ask me.

 

[W210 Fan]

http://www.motorsm.com/motorsport/auto/F1/F1_Rules.asp

rule changes

 

[glojo]

Just to help those of us who are a bit behind Glojo, what are the new qualifying rules? I've heard about the 2.4 litre V8 engines, which I think is a bit of a shame but I'm a bit fuzzy about the other technical rule changes and qualifying as I said.

Also, Bernie is indeed a bit bent and Max Mosely is starting to rival his father for lunancy. The sooner son-of-a-blackshirt gets out of Formula One the better if you ask me.

Hi Rose,
The snag with rules and Formula 1 is really that teams employ excellent legal staff that do their utmost to push them to the outter edge of legality. Is this right?

I agreed completely with W210 Fan about the aero dynamics ruining the racing aspect of this great formula, but one of the Asian races blew a blooming great big hole in that theory. There was more overtaking in that one race than the whole of the previous ones that season.... Why????

Mr E... Is the man when talking about Formula 1 regulations and hopefully he will put us right, but a very brief summary of changes can readily be found on numerous F1 sites on the Internet. For your information I have copied one such sites info:

A number of changes to both the Sporting and Technical Regulations have been made by the FIA for the 2006 Formula One season.

Qualifying
For 2006, the single-lap system used in recent years is replaced be a new three-part, knockout format, with multiple cars on track throughout the qualifying hour, which is split into two 15-minute sessions and a final 20-minute session, with five-minute breaks in between.

Part one: All 20 cars may run laps at any time during the first 15 minutes of the hour. At the end of the first 15 minutes, the five slowest cars drop out and fill the final five grid places.

Part two: After a five-minute break, the times will be reset and the 15 remaining cars then will then run in a second 15-minute session - again they may complete as many laps as they want at any time during that period. At the end of the 15 minutes, the five slowest cars drop out and fill places 11 to 15 on the grid.

Part three: After another five-minute break, the times are reset and the final 20-minute session will feature a shootout between the remaining 10 cars to decide pole position and the starting order for the top 10 grid places. Again, these cars may run as many laps as they wish.

In the first two 15-minute sessions, cars may run any fuel load and drivers knocked out after those sessions may refuel ahead of the race. However, the top-ten drivers must begin the final 20-minute session with the fuel load on which they plan to start the race. They will be weighed before they leave the pits, and whatever fuel they use in the 20 minutes may be replaced at the end of the session.

If a driver is deemed to have stopped unnecessarily on the circuit or impeded another driver during the qualifying session, then his times will be cancelled.

Engines
For 2006, engines are reduced in size from the previous 3-litre V10s to 2.4-litre V8s. The aim is to reduce costs and improve safety. With similar engine speeds, the change is expected to cut peak power by around 200bhp, which in turn is likely to add around five seconds to lap times at most circuits. The FIA may allow some teams to use 2005-spec V10s if they do not have access to competitive V8. The FIA will enforce a rev limit on any V10s to ensure performance is comparable with that of a V8.
Tyres
After a season’s absence, tyre changes during races return to Formula One in 2006. The thinking behind this is that the reduced engine size will offset any performance gain. Drivers also have access to slightly more tyres than in 2005 - seven sets of dry-weather, four sets of wet-weather and three sets of extreme-weather. Drivers must make a final choice of dry-weather compound ahead of qualifying.

Weekend schedule
In a slight change to the Grand Prix weekend format, Saturday morning now features a single, one-hour practice session, as opposed to two, 45-minute sessions. It takes place between 1100 and 1200. Qualifying is an hour later than before, commencing at 1400.

I cannot see how making engines last longer will reduce costs, because in my limited opinion the richer teams will simply spend more money developing the reliability aspect. I have highlighted in blue a very interesting point that might cause problems, especially if a V10 wins a race

Teams that qualify 16th and change an engine are not punished to the same extent as the team that qualifies 4th and needs to change an engine, is that fair?

I would love to see ALL teams having to use exactly the same fuel and oil?? Each race track should have fuel tanks and an ample supply of lubricating oil.

Tyres.
It is wrong for one manufacturer to only use one team for all their research and development but I can understand the reasons for making certain compounds for certain tracks. This was highlighted by the US fiasco, but if Monaco is to remain on the calender then perhaps tyres for this track will not be suitable for high speed circuits?

What about stopping races, or pace cars?

I am thinking of big crashes at the first bend of a race. Is it right that perhaps six cars are instantly removed from the race, whereas if the race was stopped, drivers could get into a second car, or perhaps the race car gets quickly repaired?

Regards,
John

 

[dougal74]

This is probably a silly idea but why do they have the fastest drivers, in the fastest cars at the front of the grid in nearly all the races?
Why not run one race on the Saturday instead of qualifying where all drivers are in identical cars (chassis and engine) apart from the team livery and minor set up tweaks (no traction control, slick tyres etc.). Then use the positions in that race to determine the grid for the Sunday race which would be all out best car you can design and run within the rules (electric gizmos, aero, the lot).
Then you have the drivers showing off who is best in the first (and the driver/team partnership with the set-up) and the manufacturers showing off who builds the best car in the second. It would be a true combined championship with points being scored in both races. :bannana:

 

[glojo]

This is probably a silly idea but why do they have the fastest drivers, in the fastest cars at the front of the grid in nearly all the races?

Many years ago Formula 1 drivers were not such valuable assests and they used to have a saloon car race before their main event. I would love to see a modern manufacturer supplying 22 identical cars and have a saloon car championship running alongside the F1 event.

Injuries would be a major worry and the standard of driving would need to be heavily policed, but it would certainly be entertaining.

Putting the fastest formula 1 cars at the back of the grid might cause problems when all the drivers jockey for position at the first bend, Monaco being a prime example?

John