Formula 1, Moto GP, WSB, 2021 Season

[Bellow]

To me this is a good calm and reasoned view of the Silverstone GP. But, I may be biased as I like LH as a racer.

Silverstone Debrief

In that piece, Peter Windsor mentions the Mercedes being hard on its tyres with a full fuel load. Is that possibly what hampers Bottas in the early stage of a race?

 

[Bendo]

In that piece, Peter Windsor mentions the Mercedes being hard on its tyres with a full fuel load. Is that possibly what hampers Bottas in the early stage of a race?

I think Bottas has never been great at tyre management full stop. Even when in dirty air Lewis manages to keep his going better than Bottas.

 

[zipdip]

Well given both Red Bull and MB are on the second of their engines and just maybe that accident may have damaged the Red Bull engine,how are they going to get through the remaining races which I make to be around 15 ,there is no way they can get through this long season without penalties

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Interesting that Toto was the one that felt the immediate need to send emails and messages then go to the stewards room.

Don't blame Horner for then doing the same given the circumstances.

 

[GeeJayW]

Interesting that Toto was the one that felt the immediate need to send emails and messages then go to the stewards room.

Don't blame Horner for then doing the same given the circumstances.

I think Toto’s view is that Lewis had enough overlap to ‘claim‘ the corner and expect Max to yield. Polar opposite of Horner’s view. No surprise at all that they both wanted to talk to the stewards

 

[Dryce]

Interesting that Toto was the one that felt the immediate need to send emails and messages then go to the stewards room.

Probably listening to David Coulthard on the live commentary.

Also his driver was still in the race so still had something to lose.

Don't blame Horner for then doing the same given the circumstances.

While I wouldn't have use the same language and style as Mr Horner later on - yes - I would have been thinking about making a legitimate case to suport my team and driver.

Silverstone seems to show the level of stress and emotion is quite high this season. I wonder if Honda's departure isn't adding some additional pressure to the situation at Red Bull - maybe some incentives on offer behind the scenes if Red Bull get the WDC this year.

 

[pmcgsmurf]

I think Toto’s view is that Lewis had enough overlap to ‘claim‘ the corner and expect Max to yield. Polar opposite of Horner’s view. No surprise at all that they both wanted to talk to the stewards

My point was that Toto went first.
No suggestion Horner did until he heard Toto was, then of course he went to put his 2 pence in.

Just seems a bit knee jerk from Toto but then again his driver was still in the race so he would do everything possible (not anything) to maximise the teams position in the situation......just like Horner......

 

[pmcgsmurf]

While I wouldn't have use the same language and style as Mr Horner later on - yes - I would have been thinking about making a legitimate case to suport my team and driver.

Think that may have been it.

 

[Bendo]

My point was that Toto went first.
No suggestion Horner did until he heard Toto was, then of course he went to put his 2 pence in.

To be fair, Masi did tell him to. And in fact he was saying until yesterday he has no issues with people visiting the stewards. The wind has change direction since then though.

Worrying that he is apparently the most qualified to be race director! Was never a huge fan of Charlie but Mass is awful.

 

[bob6600]

Mercedes Debrief British GP

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[bob6600]

Red Bull say Max's car's repair bill is £1.3m and they are still thinking of appealing against the stewards' decision from last week. I think they need to take it on the chin, move on and concentrate on the next race

Max Verstappen crash repair bill £1.3m say Red Bull, as they continue to mull request to review Lewis Hamilton penalty

Christian Horner says Red Bull still considering all our sporting options over whether to submit a right of review claim to FIA over Lewis Hamiltons 10s penalty; Mercedes maintain sanction was harsh; F1 resumes following Silverstone controversy at Hungarian GP from Friday on Sky F1

www.skysports.com

 

[st13phil]

Interesting article that illustrates how important it is to design the power unit and the chassis as a single entity when looking for absolute peak performance in F1:

Formula 1: How failure led to Honda's F1 success with Red Bull

Honda's success with Red Bull this season has been built on the Japanese engine company's previous failures in F1, its technical boss says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[GeeJayW]

Interesting article that illustrates how important it is to design the power unit and the chassis as a single entity when looking for absolute peak performance in F1:

Formula 1: How failure led to Honda's F1 success with Red Bull

Honda's success with Red Bull this season has been built on the Japanese engine company's previous failures in F1, its technical boss says.

www.bbc.co.uk

In F1 the engine and gearbox assembly are the back half of the chassis.

 

[bob6600]

Honda initially struggled because McLaren had a 'size zero' rear and to make it fit, they had to make big compromises. They struggled to accommodate for McLaren and subsequently McLaren ran out of patience. As in the article above, they had the same issue with Torro Rosso and initially with Red Bull however it has been more of a joint venture this past year or so.

Interestingly, as they have bought their 2022 engine forward, does this mean that their 2022 engine will now be similar to this years, allowing MB to perhaps overtake them? To bring an engine a year forward must compromise on things like reliability, although time will tell

 

[st13phil]

In F1 the engine and gearbox assembly are the back half of the chassis.

Indeed they are, which is why the engine dimensions, engine CofG, etc. are best harmonised with the chassis at design time for both, rather than simply bolting on a PU with pre-defined fixed dimensions and packaging requirements.

 

[Mactech]

Interesting article that illustrates how important it is to design the power unit and the chassis as a single entity when looking for absolute peak performance in F1:

Formula 1: How failure led to Honda's F1 success with Red Bull

Honda's success with Red Bull this season has been built on the Japanese engine company's previous failures in F1, its technical boss says.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yes, this has always been the way forward in most motorsport categories. Supplier and customer just doesn't work well enough for peak performance.
It must be a true partnership with a very astute Technical Director who can make the right performance call on which bits of the car and engine will yield the most benefit.
You may notice in that article the reference to C of G of the power unit package which Honda have managed to reduce this year. This is most probably higher up the gains table at Red Bull due to their high rake design. Mercedes will have a made some gains elsewhere, but with the regulation change around the back of the floor for 2021 losing the low rake cars more downforce have handed an advantage to a car which runs a high crank line engine but with lower C of G.
To take advantage of 2021regulations would require to Mercedes to build a new car and a new engine package, so you can see why they have only limited upgrades for the few months these current regulations will be in force.

 

[st13phil]

Supplier and customer just doesn't work well enough for peak performance.

As evidenced in recent years in F1 by McLaren / Honda and Red Bull / Renault. It's also why Mercedes (and Ferrari, although realised to a lesser extent) have an advantage over other teams who buy in a "standard" PU from one of the other manufacturers.

You may notice in that article the reference to C of G of the power unit package which Honda have managed to reduce this year. This is most probably higher up the gains table at Red Bull due to their high rake design.

That was one of the significant take-aways I had from the article. Reducing the PU C of G has to be pretty high up on the list of gains for any high rake design which has the penalty vs a low rake design of having the heavy stuff at the rear end mounted high in the air.

 

[Bellow]

I thought, the CofG of the engine was (as with many other aspects) mandated by the FIA. Presumably within a 'range' then before Honda could change it.

 

[GeeJayW]

I thought, the CofG of the engine was (as with many other aspects) mandated by the FIA. Presumably within a 'range' then before Honda could change it.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_formula_1_technical_regulations_-_iss_7_-_2020-12-16.pdf

Section 5.3 refers to CofG no less than 200mm above the reference plane.

 

[bob6600]

Video conference to be held at 3pm on Thursday between Red Bull, Mercedes and the stewards. Red Bull need to submit new and significant evidence for the case to be reopened. I wonder what would happen if the stewards decide that Max was as much at fault as Hamilton?

Red Bull launch challenge against Lewis Hamilton's penalty in Max Verstappen British GP crash

Red Bull have requested a review of Lewis Hamilton's penalty in the British GP for the collision with Max Verstappen.

www.skysports.com