Formula 1, Moto GP, WSB, 2021 Season

[Mactech]

Bottas proved to me, just how pointless he is in the team. Give George a chance.

Well it's precisely because he isn't pointless and brings a whole hat full of points to Mercedes to win the constructors championships....multiple times.
George's day will come.

 

[davymead]

And that was being in the car behind rather than in front! It was amazing to watch him follow so close for so long. Although Horner has said the Red Bull seems to be harder on it's tyres, the Mercedes has always been bad in the wake of another car. To keep within 1-1.5 seconds and still have some tyres was some performance.

Absolutely, it must be so difficult to compete with Lewis when he‘s just so utterly relentless.

 

[Bellow]

To keep within 1-1.5 seconds and still have some tyres was some performance.

That, the 100th pole, the final 20 or so laps - even the ad hoc karaoke - absolutely a star performer.

 

[Bellow]

Well it's precisely because he isn't pointless and brings a whole hat full of points to Mercedes to win the constructors championships....multiple times.
George's day will come.

Yep, VB delivered up another 15 points yesterday.
That said though, him being less than helpful in allowing LH past (when every second was crucial for LH) and his re-start the previous week which didn't exactly help LH being passed by MV as he was does raise questions of just how much of a team player he's prepared to be. Thing is though, replace him with a hotshot and it's hard to guarantee the newcomer is any more dutiful. Or that he can consistently add to the WCC tally.

 

[Dryce]

Well it's precisely because he isn't pointless and brings a whole hat full of points to Mercedes to win the constructors championships....multiple times.
George's day will come.

It's a bit of a dilemma.

Imagine if Mercedes had employed a Max Verstappen or a young Lewis Hamilton as their established WDC driver's team mate ....... or even thinking back to when Nico Rosberg was actively competing with Sir LH.

It's not just about points for third but also insurance - question is - if LH became indisposed could VB win the championship. I think the answer isn't as assured as it was when Nico Rosberg was Sir LH's teammate.

 

[Rpp999]

I think we will see how much Bottas is a team player when and if Perez gets dialled into the Red Bull. All the time Mercedes have a 2 to 1 advantage their decision making is all too easy for them.

 

[Bellow]

I think we will see how much Bottas is a team player when and if Perez gets dialled into the Red Bull. All the time Mercedes have a 2 to 1 advantage their decision making is all too easy for them.

I expected Perez to hit the ground running but it's taking time for him to find his feet. Meantimes, VB finishing third to MV's second isn't hurting MB as Perez is still somewhere behind.
How the pair (VB and SP) will be deployed when they are more closely matched will be interesting. Spoilers to the main duo or a ferocious fight for bronze?

 

[GeeJayW]

I expected Perez to hit the ground running but it's taking time for him to find his feet. Meantimes, VB finishing third to MV's second isn't hurting MB as Perez is still somewhere behind.
How the pair (VB and SP) will be deployed when they are more closely matched will be interesting. Spoilers to the main duo or a ferocious fight for bronze?

I think the Red Bull is a difficult car to drive on the limit, and has been set up around Max’s driving style. Sergio has a different driving style, but I think he has the talent to get where he needs to be.

On your earlier point about MB not pitting Lewis in response to Max’s stop; Max would have still had track position and Lewis would then be locked into the same one-stop strategy. Leaving him out for extra laps on the soft opened up a two-stop strategy option which paid off.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

If Mercedes replaced Bottas with someone closer to Hamilton's capabilities, isn't there the risk that they'd have a more equal share of the drivers' points as happened with Nico. A few unlucky races with either one being taken out by a car in the middle of the pack and those shared points aren't looking so good. Meanwhile, Verstappen has been piling up his own points with consistent unchallenged podiums including the occasional top spot until he ends up World Champion.

 

[davymead]

Strictly speaking I’m not so much promoting any particular person or team, but more about watching great racing. Pop George Russell in a Merc and watch the sparks fly. Maybe Max would find it even harder than he does now to pick up the scraps, in points that is.

 

[Bellow]

I think the Red Bull is a difficult car to drive on the limit, and has been set up around Max’s driving style. Sergio has a different driving style, but I think he has the talent to get where he needs to be.

I have to wonder if there is a weakness there at RB in finding an accommodating set-up for Perez in a car - as you rightly say - is set up around MV. Mercedes seem not to have any problem finding a set-up for VB. Maybe VB's driving style is more like LH's, maybe being there longer has made a difference. Or is the car more amenable to different set-ups and/or the team more capable/willing to accommodate it second driver?

On your earlier point about MB not pitting Lewis in response to Max’s stop; Max would have still had track position and Lewis would then be locked into the same one-stop strategy. Leaving him out for extra laps on the soft opened up a two-stop strategy option which paid off.

I guess the Channel4 commentary made too much of how LH would have taken the lead had he pitted when MV did. But MB don't bank on a slow RB pit stop.

 

[Mactech]

Strictly speaking I’m not so much promoting any particular person or team, but more about watching great racing. Pop George Russell in a Merc and watch the sparks fly. Maybe Max would find it even harder than he does now to pick up the scraps, in points that is.

I get where you are coming from and I'm sure the racing would be entertaining and sparks would fly....
However, the Mercedes machine is intent on winning races and championships, and the 'entertainment' is a secondary consideration.

To further illustrate how Bottas is not pointless to the team, there are some who may point out that despite being taken out of one race already this year by a young British charger (no names!) he is now up to 3rd in the drivers championship having just overhauled another very promising young Brit......

 

[GeeJayW]

I have to wonder if there is a weakness there at RB in finding an accommodating set-up for Perez in a car - as you rightly say - is set up around MV. Mercedes seem not to have any problem finding a set-up for VB. Maybe VB's driving style is more like LH's, maybe being there longer has made a difference. Or is the car more amenable to different set-ups and/or the team more capable/willing to accommodate it second driver?



I guess the Channel4 commentary made too much of how LH would have taken the lead had he pitted when MV did. But MB don't bank on a slow RB pit stop.

I think RBR have possibly gone down a cul de sac in terms of speed/driveability, such that it takes someone with Max’s driving ability to get it on the pace. So, when he gets it right, the car is quick. Dialling it back to make it more driveable, makes it slower.

I haven’t seen the outlap and first post-stop flying lap times for Max, but thought at the time that he was quick enough to have been ahead had Lewis stopped on the next lap. On the other hand the Channel 4 guys may well have been right, though I guess that’s moot?

 

[st13phil]

On the other hand the Channel 4 guys may well have been right, though I guess that’s moot?

The Mercedes strategy was a stroke of genius, and bearing in mind it required that they had an “extra” set of tyres available, was most probably not a spur of the moment decision.

By running LH long when MV pitted, it gave them the opportunity to pretty much guarantee that the best placing MV could achieve would be second. And don’t underestimate the psychological impact on MV when he realised what was unfolding - you could hear the growing despondency in his radio transmissions.

The one thing I don’t quite get is why they pulled VB in for tyres to go for the quickest lap when they did. Had they waited a little longer, MV wouldn’t have had the opportunity to do the same thing and could have been denied the extra point.

 

[Bellow]

I think RBR have possibly gone down a cul de sac in terms of speed/driveability, such that it takes someone with Max’s driving ability to get it on the pace. So, when he gets it right, the car is quick. Dialling it back to make it more driveable, makes it slower.

That the Mercedes is more driveable for drivers other than the designated number one to my eyes shows the breadth of engineering capability at MB. And a source of pressure for VB.....

I haven’t seen the outlap and first post-stop flying lap times for Max, but thought at the time that he was quick enough to have been ahead had Lewis stopped on the next lap. On the other hand the Channel 4 guys may well have been right, though I guess that’s moot?

Channel 4 guys were right only in respect of MV's fudged slow stop. I think that MB not pitting LH at that point is an admission that RBR have the upper hand in those situations due to quicker tyres switch-on. No matter, MB had it in hand and countered beautifully.

 

[GeeJayW]

That the Mercedes is more driveable for drivers other than the designated number one to my eyes shows the breadth of engineering capability at MB. And a source of pressure for VB.....

I think it’s more to do with the balance sensitivity that comes with the high-rake aero concept adopted by RBR vs the low rake approach from MB which seems to be less ‘edgy’. I’d love to have a chat with Adrian Newey about it.

 

[Mactech]

I think it’s more to do with the balance sensitivity that comes with the high-rake aero concept adopted by RBR vs the low rake approach from MB which seems to be less ‘edgy’. I’d love to have a chat with Adrian Newey about it.

I think all the top technical guys in F1 have at some point come to realisation that it is actually having a flexible window of working is of greater importance the top headline figures in any specific arena. Ross used to speak of the 'transitional' state in aerodynamics (because the cars are never actually in a steady state). Toto referred to the having a flexible strategy (2 sets of mediums tyres available for the race) rather than be nailed to the theoretical 'fastest'
Add a driver capable of being flexible and adapting to the ever changing conditions ( witness the Brundle interview with Lewis about qualifying)
and you will get close to the answer......perhaps!

 

[Dryce]

The one thing I don’t quite get is why they pulled VB in for tyres to go for the quickest lap when they did. Had they waited a little longer, MV wouldn’t have had the opportunity to do the same thing and could have been denied the extra point.

I don't think the margin between VB and Sir LH is that high in terms of ultimate speed - the difference is that LH can keep it up over the whole race distance and manage his tyres and machinery just a bit better. The cumulative effect of that over a race makes a big difference to strategy options - in effect it opens windows which magnifies the aparent performance diferences further. Both LH and MV benefit from this effect.

At the end of the race when VB was putting in his fastest laps on new softs he was only about 0.5s better than Sir LH on old mediums for a couple of laps. He didn't close the gap with Sir LH by very much.

With just a bit more race pace VB should have been able to take second - it would have closed down options for MV and opened up a bit more for VB.

That inability to take second is what is keeping this championship alive and potentially exciting - the delay of (what ? about 1.5s) of Sir LH getting past on lap 51 is insignificant to the WDC outcome compared with the points that are leaking to MV and Red Bull.

 

[Darrell]

As an aside, on ITV4 Monaco Historic Grand Prix racing.

Wonderful to see the F1 cars of my youth.

 

[Spider10]

Also watching it