Front / Rear ... Same or staggered for Winter ?

[Bobby Dazzler]

@MSG2004 Good shout with the insurance. Basically my insurance (Adrian Flux) insists of being notified and in addition to that the tyres need to be approved by Mercedes. So bottom line, can’t use my standard OEM wheels for winter as they wouldn’t be approved by Mercedes hence insurance.

By definition they're approved, they're the standard wheel in the standard sizes supplied by the car. As long as you fit legal (Winter) tyres in the same size then it would be difficult to see how it could be disputed as not being approved by Mercedes.

 

[Jibbajabba]

By definition they're approved, they're the standard wheel in the standard sizes supplied by the car. As long as you fit legal (Winter) tyres in the same size then it would be difficult to see how it could be disputed as not being approved by Mercedes.

With the difference that according to Mercedes the wheels are not approved for winter.

Check the list.

I am just worried that the insurance would try ANYTHING to get out of it.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

With the difference that according to Mercedes the wheels are not approved for winter.

Check the list.

I am just worried that the insurance would try ANYTHING to get out of it.

So the file you have linked to shows approved wheel & tyre combinations and recommended tyres. Recommended tyres are those which carry the MO/MOE/MO1/etc ("MO") identifier, that is to say that Mercedes worked with the tyre manufacturer to specify some variable attributes of the tyres to suit the Mercedes house style, eg ride comfort, breakaway characteristics at the limit, etc.

This is an important distinction, as it's not mandatory to use recommended tyres. It's possible to use tyres which are not recommended, however like you I would not willingly choose wheel & tyre combinations which are not in approved sizes, not just for insurance reasons, but also because it could affect systems such as ABS, ESP, etc.

So I believe that fitting Winter tyres in exactly the same sizes as your Summer tyres will be fine, because it's an approved wheel & tyre (size) combination, however you may not be able to find recommended MO spec tyres in those sizes. To find MO spec tyres you'll need to opt for another approved wheel & tyre combination which has a recommended tyre size.

So you could fit 265/35 ZR20 99 Winter tyres on 9.5Jx20 front wheels and 295/30 ZR20 Winter tyres on 10Jx20 rear wheels, as this is an approved wheel & tyre combination (size) however you may not be able to find recommended MO-spec Winter tyres in those sizes (as Mercedes have only worked with tyre manufacturers for Summer tyres).

Or you could fit 265/40 Winter tyres on R19 9.5Jx19 front wheels and 295/35 R19 Winter tyres on 10Jx19 rear wheels, as this is an approved wheel & tyre combination AND there are recommended MO-spec tyres available, which in this case are Michelin Pilot Alpin for Winter tyres.

As you're planning to retain your existing wheels for Winter use then these are the only approved wheel & tyre combinations available to you.

 

[Jibbajabba]

Thanks for the explanation - I missed the 'recommended' part on that PDF - what really annoys me more now is the inability of dealers to clarify this ... if they can't - how the heck are we supposed to (given the PDF isn't even available online).

I gonna think a bit more about it. 20" Winter Tyres are also a lot more expensive so will sit down and calculate the cost and compare them but I think winter tyres will likely last a few years so it probably makes no financial sense to purchase a set of wheels just for the sake of winter tyres. The official 19" set for the e63s - the only one available - is about £3k ...

Even 'decent' brands are about 2k -4k (wouldn't trust putting a cheap set of wheels on a £100k car)...

Mmmmm... I may end up with using OEM wheels .. at least from that point of view (and surely insurance wise) it is running on OEM wheels.

 

[Jibbajabba]

Adding to it - you actually can get the same PA4 in 20" - just not MO .. but my gosh - rear ones are 400+

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Adding to it - you actually can get the same PA4 in 20" - just not MO .. but my gosh - rear ones are 400+

View attachment 103535

Winter tyres from quality brands aren't cheap, and unfortunately you're now shopping for Winter tyres at the same time as the rest of the Northern half of the Northern Hemisphere - the UK is the odd one out in this respect - so you're paying top prices because of peak demand. Spring is a great time to buy Winter tyres, if you can accept that you won't use them for a while.

I bought some Winter tyres in March and they were significantly less expensive than when I started looking in December, I forget the specifics now but I picked some up for something like 25% less, maybe even more. Tyre sellers and distributors tend not to sell many Winter tyres over Summer so they're keen to offload them in Sprinng to get the cash in the bank.

As you say though they will last more than one season. In my experience Winter tyres cover many more miles than Summer tyres. I would conservatively estimate that they will cover 50% more miles than your Summer tyres, and so you may find that you never buy another set of Winter tyres for as long as you own the car. I get 5-6 seasons out of a set of Winter tyres.

Even with 4-matic the difference in cold wet conditions will be noticeable (it's not just about moving in snow, stopping snow is more important, as are the many other cold/wet days without snow). One of my car has Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres (maybe an option on your car) which would have been horrible to drive yesterday but I went on a 200 mile drive in complete confidence.

 

[Jibbajabba]

Not to mention the lack of skipping / crabbing .. Even the PS4S I got now are a lot worse when it gets cold - and we are talking still around 9C - 10C.

But that is also a reason I am looking now - temps don't justify winter tyres but I also don't want to get into a situation where everybody needs them

You say you buy yours in March - how do you store them to keep them in good condition ?

 

[MSG2004]

Cheers for the update. Glad I posted re insurance and hope others will not if reading this thread and may save you a lot of problems.
NB> I think I did forget to tell the insurance that the wheels were no longer staggered, genuine mistake,
I'm getting 4 new tyres on my GLE tomorrow as puncture in rear tyre, factory fitted Dunlop Spot Maxx 265/45/20 Y. Found them slippery. More than a year left on the rears imo but the fronts bit more worn and inside edges on both slightly more so decided to replace all. Don just over 15k miles and for certain under 16k of careful driving. I had the Uniroyals on my C class for a year or so before selling and it felt a softer ride, quieter ride and stuck to the road like glue in the rain, so I'm hoping for the same. The Uniroyals are not MO tyres but IMO a good brand judging by reviews and my own experience and good value.
Good luck.

 

[Jibbajabba]

First thing I did when I got the e63s - it had 3k miles on it - was throw out the Pirelli - what a set of garbage that was .. I know skipping / crabbing is a thing or two - even with PS4S - but the Pirelli were utter shambles. The dealer even warned me at pickup that this is normal ...

 

[markjay]

My C250 is 4matic , am I going to have problems with Michelin Crossclimates on the front and Bridgestone SO1 summers on the rear ???

I would always recommend the same make and model of tyres all-around for any car, even more so on a road-going 4WD.

 

[rf065]

Btw, just looked up emails, i had 205 wide on the front and 225 on the rears, when I got the Continental winter contacts, i put just the 2 on the rear both 205 but the fitters want to sell me the 4 as they said it coyld be 'dangerous'

And you think they were wrong?

My C250 is 4matic , am I going to have problems with Michelin Crossclimates on the front and Bridgestone SO1 summers on the rear ???

Not so much on dry roads, but on snow and ice the imbalance of grip will be night and day from front to back.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Not to mention the lack of skipping / crabbing .. Even the PS4S I got now are a lot worse when it gets cold - and we are talking still around 9C - 10C.

But that is also a reason I am looking now - temps don't justify winter tyres but I also don't want to get into a situation where everybody needs them

You say you buy yours in March - how do you store them to keep them in good condition ?

Until recently I kept them all at home in a garage with no windows but it was getting out of hand, it was starting to look like my local Kwik Fit.

It’s possible to get “tyre trees” to store mounted tyres (ie on wheels) without any part of the tyre touching anything other that the wheels it’s mounted on, but they’re not easy to find big enough for 295 tyres - I took a few to the tip a few months ago, or else you could have had them.

I now use a tyre hotel to store them - both mounted on wheels and tyres without wheels. It’s great! It costs me £40 per change over and storage is at no extra cost. I know they’re all safe and secure and stored in optimal conditions, and I have a load of space back.

Best of all I don’t to change them myself or find someone to change them for me. The company I used to use to change over went out of business a while back, making storage at home a pain in the bottom as my health doesn’t allow me to change them over myself without paying the price!

Whereabouts are you?

 

[ray_hennig]

When last in Germany in the snow, I noticed many exotic Audis, MBs, BMWs and Porsches running on very ordinary-looking black steel wheels. The posh alloys were doubtless in the garage awaiting sprint.

RayH

 

[Scooby_Doo]

You really shouldn’t be mixing summer and winter tyres, the difference in grip will catch you out and could end horribly.

Not so much on dry roads, but on snow and ice the imbalance of grip will be night and day from front to back.

I think I need to review my tyre options - here's my dilemma : Car came fitted with 19" AMG multispokes so I bought a set of 18" AMG 5 twin spoke alloys off ebay for £500 , two alloys as new , one with a slight kerb mark and one refurbished (front wheel) rear tyres with 7mm . I then put Michelin crossclimates on the front in Oct 19. I'd been looking for a replacement for the refurbished alloy since buying the set but there's so much rubbish for sale on ebay that after 9 months I was ready to give up until last October (after buying the Crossclimates ) up popped a full set of 18" AMG's - brand new with unused Bridgestone SO1's for £900 , couldn't resist. The plan was sell at least the kerbed and refurbished alloy when the tyres were shot. PROBLEM - the refurbished alloy has a nice Crossclimate on it and the Avons on the rear of the first set still have 4 mm on them.
Current Plan : ( I like the ride on the 18"'s , easy to clean to use all the tread on the tyres ) Oct , Nov - SO1 on front Avons on the rear. Dec , Jan and Feb Crossclimates on the front and Avons on the rear. Mar ,Apr & May SO1's all round (rear Avons worn out) June , July ,Aug ,Sept -19"s. Next winter 21/22 - Crossclimates front SO1's on the rear.

Plan B , after the above comments : Buy two new crossclimates for the rear , and only use this set over the colder months. Use the nice new set with SO1's when I fancy a change from the 19"'s. SORTED anybody want some Avons with 4mm tread.

 

[unimog]

Looks like there are plenty to choose from, Pirelli Sottozero, Continental Wintercontact and Michelin Alpin - I’ve had all of those and have been pleased with them all.

WinterContact™ TS 860 S​

Ultimate winter performance enhanced by German technology​

265/35 R20 99W XL
295/30 R20 101W XL

I have these for the GT, even the winter rears are XL rated, 315/30 R21 105Y, 275/35 103Y R21 front and MOE stamped, they are available as 20" MOE as well.

TS860s is approved for all AMG cars, standard winter fit for German deliveries I am told, that's why I went with them. You can use winter tyres on any OEM AMG rims, but not snow chains.

 

[sgregory124]

I have these for the GT, even the winter rears are XL rated, 315/30 R21 105Y, 275/35 103Y R21 front and MOE stamped, they are available as 20" MOE as well.

TS860s is approved for all AMG cars, standard winter fit for German deliveries I am told, that's why I went with them. You can use winter tyres on any OEM AMG rims, but not snow chains.

You say you can't use snow chains on AMG rims, you will be able to use Konig/Thule K-Summit's on them as no part of the chain assembly touches the wheel or goes behind it. They're like magic

 

[Jibbajabba]

I have these for the GT, even the winter rears are XL rated, 315/30 R21 105Y, 275/35 103Y R21 front and MOE stamped, they are available as 20" MOE as well.

TS860s is approved for all AMG cars, standard winter fit for German deliveries I am told, that's why I went with them. You can use winter tyres on any OEM AMG rims, but not snow chains.

Would love to know where you get them from because I cannot find any dealer that sells MO ones ... In fact - Contis website only offers them in 21. And when looking at car models they only offer them for the E450 4 Matic .. really weird.

 

[rf065]

Would love to know where you get them from because I cannot find any dealer that sells MO ones

Why MO? It doesn't make any difference, in real terms whether if it says MO or not?

 

[Jibbajabba]

It doesn't - I am more curious then anything as he mentions they are available in large sizes as MO ... Was merely wondering if he knows a website I have missed

 

[unimog]

Would love to know where you get them from because I cannot find any dealer that sells MO ones ... In fact - Contis website only offers them in 21. And when looking at car models they only offer them for the E450 4 Matic .. really weird.

From Kunzmann.de with my wheels. You will struggle to find winter MO/E tyres in the UK as its not mandatory and 99.9% of people wont spend the money on them, your MB dealer can order them, but they wont want to as its hassle and their margins are poor on tyres purchased through MB.