Further cuts to child benefits?

Discussion in 'OT (OFF Topic) Forums' started by knighterrant, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. knighterrant

    knighterrant Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith is reported to be proposing limiting child benefit to a maximum of two children for all families. At present all parents with young children are given the benefit worth £20.30 a week for the first child and £13.40 for each subsequent child. For a couple with two children, it is worth £1,752 a year, while for a couple with three children it is worth £2,448 a year. From January, child benefit will be reduced for families where one earner is on more than £50,000 and removed altogether from those earning £60,000 or more. The further cuts proposed by IDS would apply to ALL families having more than two children, but it wouldn’t be applied retrospectively so existing larger families wouldn’t lose out – until they had more children.

    What does the panel think?
     
  2. redbaron

    redbaron Banned

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    I think it will be a good move and stop those who see breeding as a profession.
     
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  3. tonysurf

    tonysurf Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Pandering to readers of the Mail
     
  4. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    I don't have a learnt opinion as such, but...

    I find that many of the taxes and benefits (it works both ways) in existence today are there simply because it has always been this way and not necessarily because they makes sense or due to any logic reasoning.

    It is fair to ask why people with decent income should need any form of state support at all.
     
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  5. balge

    balge Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Utterly inadequate, not even a drop in the ocean. (assuming the idea is to cut the deficit...)

    How about stopping all benefits for everyone earning more than the minimum wage - not just tax loopholes, but married allowances, trust funds, child allowances, charitable relief etc etc - should knock a bit off income tax

    Make the NHS, state 'education', dentists, state pension, Fire services etc etc means tested - why should millionaires get stuff free?

    Simplify benefits, fixed minimum income guaranteed whether for sickness, pension or unemployment benefits etc etc save a fortune by cutting out millions of work hours deciding what name to give the pittance eventually handed out...could probably lose more than half the DWP, save some real money, or get an employment agency on the job, standard rates apply, if they are making money they might actually make an effort to find people work...

    Cheaper all round, and probably 'fairer', what's not to like?
     
  6. Bobby Dazzler

    Bobby Dazzler MB Club Veteran

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    I received the letter from HMRC today and opened it when a social worker was sat beside me. It seems to have caused a stir because a family with a single earner of £50,001 is affected and a family with two earners of £49,999 won't be, despite the fact that the combined income will be more than double (from New Year). That's poor, if it's true.
     
  7. renault12ts

    renault12ts MB Club Veteran

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    It is true. But we've known this for many months.

    The restriction to two children whilst not universally welcomed, will cause some people to rethink their strategy re: size of family. It's not retrospective, so people in receipt already will not face further hardship.
     
  8. Scott_F

    Scott_F Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    We already have Atos getting paid by the Government to try to get those on disability living allowance back into work. The company often makes very poor judgements and have lost tens of thousands of appeals (about 40% of the total made).

    I think those who have been affected don't find that things are now 'fairer' and have found quite a lot not to like.
     
  9. Harrythedog

    Harrythedog Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    If Mr &Mrs jobless get £X in benefits to keep them "out of poverty" why can't Mr & Mrs worker be allowed to earn the same amount before tax is deducted?
     
  10. alhucoll

    alhucoll Member

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    Really need to shake up the benefit system so it cannot be a "lifestyle" choice. i work and pay my taxes and my own way, yet it's five years since I could realistically afford a holiday.
    Love to see the scroungers hit in the pocket so that actually working is seen as a better option.
    Jobs are out there - during downturns in my industry I've stacked shelves, emptied bins and swept floors for upto a 60 hour week to keep the roof over my head and food in my belly.

    Child benefit for two children only - want more children, be responsible and pay.
    A married couple with only one earning - lets have a transferable tax allowance.
    Do away with tax credits - increase the tax allowances.

    Al,
    Into my fourth week in the Falklands and getting grumpy :)
     
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  11. Dryce

    Dryce MB Club Veteran

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    I don't have a problem with limiting it in principle.

    However it's effectively being means tested by a threshold. So yet more silly complications for our already convoluted tax and benefits system. I think the solution is limit it to two kids worth maximum.

    An alternative is just to make it taxable - but that is complicated by the fact that it's paid to the mother who may not work and then trying to tie the mother to a partner with income (or 'household' income).

    So in reality. I'd forget about thresholds taxation and household income

    Instead I'd figure to pay it out but only for first two kids that a mother has in her lifetime - and only for kids born in this country to mothers who have the right to live here by citizenship. And if it's paid to people well over £50K plus just let that go on the basis that the treasury is probably making enough back on tax from them anyway.
     
  12. m2287

    m2287 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    What's £20 a week to anyone on over 50k anyway? Do they need it? I think it
    Would be better spent on the elderly. That's with a combined income of over £50k aswell.
     
  13. renault12ts

    renault12ts MB Club Veteran

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    Well, I did here one woman complain that the family might have to forego a holiday.:doh:
     
  14. st4

    st4 Banned

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    Agree. The cap on benefits for child three is great. Why should we all finance people's desires to have massive families. If people want three plus kids, great but assistance should stop at two. It'll put an end to breeding to get a big house gratis whilst being a pensioner of a state. You know the sort, drinks Stella all day, has a putt bull dog, doesn't work and has five kids. The female sort has four kids, they all look different, no job, sky tv and a selection of track suits
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  15. wemorgan

    wemorgan MB Club Veteran

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    How much money will this policy save vs how much air time is it getting?
    It feels like a non-story to me, other than the fairness of the threshold calculations.
     
  16. st4

    st4 Banned

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    True but as they put in so much more relatively and absolutely it's one way for them to get something back. Maybe not the purpose of tax and benefits.

    For all a phat rise in personal allowances would go down well with a simpler benefits system to follow and understand would be easier and more cost affective to run,
     
  17. balge

    balge Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Single person unemployment benefit = £3700 pa

    Single person tax allowance = £7,475 pa

    Council tax benefit would be the same for a single person on a low wage, 15% of all 'working households' receive CT benefits...

    Wouldn't help...
     
  18. balge

    balge Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Maybe the Government should have written them a better contract then? The reality is Atos are paid to get people off benefits - not into work...
     
  19. Dryce

    Dryce MB Club Veteran

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    The amounts involved are reasonably large. And as you recover the savings year after year period it becomes very large over time.

    The real question is whether they can actually make savings. Cutting the benefits is a simple saving - OTOH trying to recover money from higher earners above some threshold is a bit more complex as some of these people may choose to adjust the way they manage their finances to deal with the change in the taxation and benefits regime.
     
  20. Harrythedog

    Harrythedog Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I think you'll find it's a different story if they both had two kids. Add together all the benefits and you'll get a tidy sum
     

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