Germany to ban combustion engines by 2030 ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pontoneer, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. Pontoneer

    Pontoneer Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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  2. carat 3.6

    carat 3.6 MB Enthusiast

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    Never happen.
     
  3. Rory

    Rory MB Enthusiast

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    I know they're a different kettle of fish, but isn't it 2025 in Norway?
     
  4. renault12ts

    renault12ts MB Club Veteran

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    The infrastructure required to fuel zero emissions vehicles is immense, far greater than what we have at present for fossil fuel vehicles.

    Take the motorway network in the UK. How many vehicles are fueling up any day of the week? How many charging stations will be required at each venue compared to the number of pumps we have at present...100s? It probably takes about 5 minutes to fill a car now...60 minutes or more for a charge?

    Now look at Germany...not going to happen. Fossil fuel vehicles can be refueled at common stations...zero emissions at individual stations...all over the place, fewer people have driveways than those that don't.
     
  5. grober

    grober MB Master

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    I could see them banning internal combustion engines within certain city limits where journeys are shorter and it would be easier to provide charging infrastructure in a small geographical area and public transport alternatives exist. But elsewhere highly unlikely I would have thought.:dk:
     
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  6. TheFoX

    TheFoX Active Member

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    Hybrids...

    Yes, while in the perfect world we would do away with combustion engines, it won't happen overnight, or even in decades. The answer is a hybrid system that allows a car to run on electric for town and city driving while allowing the vehicle to switch to a combustion engine for more rural work.

    Ironically, the law will probably state that if the combustion engine is driving the wheels, it won't be allowed, but that if it is charging the batteries via an alternator, it is perfectly allowed, because bureaucracy is like that.

    This is much like tractors that use the public roads, in that because they are agricultural in nature, they don't pay duty on fuel, whereas road going vehicles do pay duty, even though both use the public road network. Both contribute toxins the atmosphere, but bureaucracy states that you are more likely to suffer from the emissions from a road going vehicle than you would from an agricultural vehicle, even though both produce the same contaminants.

    Our world is run by accountants who can spin figures to represent anything they want. A zero emission car still requires emissions to build and maintain it. The production and transmission of electricity has its own price on the environment, and even nuclear power has its own form of contaminant, such as spent fuel rods, which require its own process of disposal.

    As Ben Harper once said in a Radio Phone In, 'Do you know how much CO2 is made in producing Lycra?'.
     
  7. optimusprime

    optimusprime MB Enthusiast

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    They want to wipe history of classic cars off the books. ..in Germany ..
    Now if they get away with it , it will be bad news .But secondhand mercs will show up over here .
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Pontoneer

    Pontoneer Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    ... and that nice 300SEL 6.3 will be exempt from VED :D

    What's not to like ?
     
  9. John Jones Jr

    John Jones Jr MB Enthusiast

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    I don't see any need for alarm or worry even if all of Europe bans sales of new I.C. engined cars by 2030. The only concern I'd have is how governments may penalise I.C. cars produced prior to 2030. Now, if classics & Youngtimers are exempt, happy days.
     
  10. Peter103

    Peter103 MB Enthusiast

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    Is that the same Germany that decided to take an extra million immigrants? :doh:
     
  11. TheFoX

    TheFoX Active Member

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    Look how things can slide, though. DAB radio was supposed to replace FM by 2015, yet a year later there are still FM transmissions, simply due to the fact that people haven't taken up DAB as the government would have liked.

    Mind you, the DTV rollout had its issues, meaning we had to continually retune of Digi boxes every few weeks, until things finally settled down.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Pontoneer

    Pontoneer Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I think DAB was rejected for numerous reasons - reception patchy in most areas ; depending on bitrate many channels offer audio quality more in keeping with AM and none come close to BBC FM in a good signal area ; lastly , why should people pay good money for new radios to do this when their old ones work perfectly well ? Where I live there's no DAB reception at all and my 20 year old Quad 77FM provides superb quality listening on Radio 2 so I'm in no hurry to replace it .

    Freeview boxes still need regular tuning as channel line up changes , I've done it at least twice this year , and the digital TV switchover did force a lot of perfectly good kit to be scrapped - best example being my Arcam Delta 150 TV tuner which itself replaced the tuner in my Sony Profeel system , the monitor of which is still under my desk in my office as I can't bring myself to throw it out .
     
  13. Tim203

    Tim203 Active Member

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    They did this with low emission vehicles having access only but still the dirty old diesels used to drive through from other countries. Used to wind people right up.
     
  14. TheFoX

    TheFoX Active Member

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    But the government still spends money like water advertising the virtue of DAB radio. If they were that committed to other areas of governing, our world would be in a better state.

    It's very much like vinyl. CDs replace vinyl as the new medium for music, yet within 20 years of phasing out vinyl, it has made a comeback, simply because analogue is just so much better at conveying music than digital. Also, why does the film industry still use film? Because film is analogue in nature, whereas digital still has limits.

    I can still remember SW, MW and LW radios, and I remember when FM took over. Of course the trade in was quality over coverage, meaning they needed more FM transmitters to cover the same area that a LW transmitter could cover.

    While technology has improved, there are shortcomings with that technology. A car made thirty years back may have only had electronic ignition, if it didn't come with a distributor, so there was very little to go wrong, and while modern cars have every bell and whistle, they have so much more to go wrong.

    The Smart Meter roll-out has also had issue with Smart Meters going wrong or being unable to update the host server. With time, these technologies become more stable, but in the early days there are often teething problems which often impact on the end user more than the manufacturer, who often seem oblivious to our woes.

    So, come 2030 when Germany decide no more combustion engines, the government will be patting themselves on the back while ordinary Germans will suffer, until someone takes note and does something positive, such as hold a referendum.
     
  15. Tim203

    Tim203 Active Member

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    It appears a goal has been set to work towards, that's what we would say and do it half heartedly. The Germans are different. They cannot fail. In 2004 the government said that every retailer had to be responsible for the plastic packaging and cans for drinks as of 1at Jan 2005. There was no warm up period . People moaned that if they bought a bottle of cola on a northbound services they couldn't return it to the same shop on the return journey. Instantly Coca Cola said " you can return our bottles anywhere our products are sold". Every supermarket introduced deposits on non reusable plastics. Drinks cans went out of fashion over night. I expect Robert Bosch and co. have such a big interest in all of this. Look at electric bikes. Their power unit is already the most popular. Unless the power levels on Hydrogen powered cars can be improved whilst maintaining emissions ( which is the current issue) then I expect the German car industry will be maintaining their lead in automotive technology.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
  16. Tim203

    Tim203 Active Member

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    Having said all that I remember Benz saying some years back that the C class ( probably w204) was going to have cam less valve operation( solenoid driven). That all went very quiet!
     
  17. Dodgy

    Dodgy Active Member

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    You can add the Netherlands and Denmark to Germany and Norway. There's more than a decent chance that new fossil fuelled consumer vehicles won't be on sale in Northern Europe in 15 years' time.

    The lengths manufacturers are going to in order to meet the EU fleet average emissions targets are already challenging. In a few years' time PHEV and BEV cars are going to be a significant proportion of new car sales - there's no other way to hit the targets.
     
  18. TheFoX

    TheFoX Active Member

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    My main concern is that we'll all be forced to drive electric cars, then someone will decide that our carbon footprint is still too big, and start shutting down power stations, meaning our cars can no longer be charged.

    Horse and cart anyone?
     
  19. Dodgy

    Dodgy Active Member

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    Of the ten biggest European companies, six are oil & gas and two are motor manufacturers. If anyone is going to do the forcing, it's them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
  20. WDB124066

    WDB124066 MB Enthusiast

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    I doubt it, just like I doubt the ciggie companies are in control of anything but the third world.
    I think you'll find rapid charging will be normal if not quicker than liquid fuels in the future, be it charging while you drive with induction loops in the road or simply at home or work or the super for that matter....
     

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