Getting scum off the roads .

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Won't work, to get around it would be childsplay.

You'd see an enormous increase in cloned cars, making the work of the police infinitely more difficult & also a huge increase of petrol theft from cars.
That's a very good point. The increased theft of petrol, would lead to not only the loss of expensive fuel for us, but probably damage to our cars filler cap etc. Also, the amount of fires and accidents involving fuel would increase, due to it being stored in an unsafe and illegal manner, by people trying to beat the system and sell black market petrol.

Tougher penalities, for un-insured drivers and more power to Police for spot checks, is the answer at this point in time.
There would have to be a manual overide in place surely. You only have to speak to a few people to find out who inaccurate ANPR or rather the databases can be. Great idea in theory, buy would you really want to be stuck somewhere at 11PM, because Direct Line or whoever have not updated the database.

I think with some after-thought that the database 'currency' needs to be improved first.
Daft idea. Why:

1) I've bought 4 old MBs over the last two years, and each one has taken its own sweet time to appear on the MID. That would have been 1-2 weeks of being unable to get petrol for my car. Thanks, mate! :(

2) People like me - feeling more than a little irate - would stop at a pump, not be able to get petrol and have to go inside to try to persuade the minimum-wagers to give me some. I'd wave my insurance certificate at them. The argument would take a while before ultimately getting to the "computer says no" stage, and until I got fed up and walked out. Meanwhile, the pump has been blocked for the duration.

3) After all the expense and effort of the petrol stations, and hassles for innocent motorists, the uninsured miscreants would simply use a legal car (wife, brother, etc) to get petrol at the station and then syphon it into their illegal car

4) Getting private companies to do law enforcement is - IMHO - A Bad Idea.

If you really want to tackle a significant number of uninsured drivers:
* remove the privacy/usage limitations from askMID
* offer a £1000 reward for anonymously reporting local uninsured cars
* get the police to confirm and prosecute the reports directly
* add the £1000 to the miscreant's eventual fine
Even assuming you could overcome the myriad problems associated with implementing this do you really want insurance companies (AKA generally as gouging, payout dodging b8stards on here) & Big Oil, (AKA as market manipulating, overcharging, Gulf destroying b8stards on here) in charge of this Government (just plain old B8stards with a capitol 'B') scheme?

Seems more sensible to enforce the quite extensive powers Plod already has to seize uninsured cars off any road in the land.
I applaud the sentiment Derek but like the others have doubts about its effective implementation. Might cause a plague of petrol syphoning or legit cars with "secondary transfer tanks" functioning as mobile filling stations for example? I saw one of those police pursuit progs a while back where they stopped a transit van full of containers of stolen petrol--- a huge accident waiting to happen.
To everyone trying to shoot this idea down. Do the police not rely on the insurance database as 'useless' it is at the moment? Why do you not ask the police not to bother as the database is inaccurate?

I know this will never be implemented but I still think it is a fantastic idea all the same.
I think it would lead to a general increase in crime. These people would steal cars with large tanks (like big Mercs), to fill up with petrol and then syphon it off into their own cars and containers.
As others, nice idea in principle but not in reality. Too many eventual pitfalls not to mention the immediate issues of increased petty crime (ie, siphoning tanks etc).

It wouldn't have stopped the drunk/unlicensed driver in the stolen car that hit Derek, unless he'd stolen an unfortunately uninsured/untaxed or whatever car, and had needed to refuel on that journey.

Won't stop people with cloned (or stolen) plates.

Will cause lots of inconvenience for the numerous 'admin errors' and the like.

And I can see the value of old diesel (veg oil ;)) Mercs and the like goig through the roof :D

So I admire the idea in principle, but would be against it personally :)

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Brilliant idea-:thumb: except for motor traders.....:eek:
I have 10 days to put a car/van on the policy, but I am still insured even though it won't come up on the database that I am, until I let the insurance broker know.
So I'm afraid from my point of view it would be a nightmare. :rolleyes:
Sweetpea - easy answer for motor traders is TRADE PLATES .

The ANPR could recognise these and dispense - no problem .
Why not go the whole hog... no point stopping half way.

Scrap insurance companies (for motor insurance) and put in place a national motor insurance scheme. Scrap VED completely and replace it with an MOT badge... certificate of roadworthiness. This would make SORNS still valid etc.

Now put the price of the insurance and VED on the fuel. That way your insurance premium and VED are directly related to the amount you drive which surely seems the fairest.

The only problem with this and the OP's original suggestion is that it would be our money grabbing government introducing and managing it so you could absolutely guarantee it wouldn't be fair or fairly priced.
......not withstanding cars on the way to MOT testing (which if out of date is still legal to drive to and from the place of test) . ......
In the case of the latter points when the driver has not been at fault, but is embarressed by the "only 5 litres" authority (if given) is in the eyes of the law too much of a risk of a breach of your civil rights. You could then sue the "record holders" for stress etc, and as such from my knowledge would make the system a potential cash cow for people changing plates, cars etc and sue

as far as taking an unlicensed/MOT expired car for test - you are not permitted to stop off along the route - you MUST drive directly to the test station and back - if car needs fuel - you should get a can beforehand .

Re compensation culture - this would be no different from having a payment card declined : it happens - tough - no comeback .
To everyone trying to shoot this idea down. Do the police not rely on the insurance database as 'useless' it is at the moment? Why do you not ask the police not to bother as the database is inaccurate?

Couple of things on that:

1 - Plod has this thing called 'discretion' and some fairly expensive training in how/when to use it. The people on the other side of the glass screen at ESSO are minimum wage and have no discretion.

2 - Plod does make mistakes and frequently relies on his computer's access to error-strewn insurance/DVLA data. It is indeed outrageous that the law now gives him the ability to deprive someone of their vehicle when the system has these known flaws.

3 - Two wrongs don't make a right.
Under my notional scheme - the attendant in the petrol station would have the discretion , if so inclined , to override the system - but only to dispense 5L . The system would have to be so designed as to prevent repeated overrides to the same registration number .
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Given the cost of implementing the scheme, and the way that the tories have argued that they are not going to be implementing 'authorisation' schemes, I do not see that this would be progressed anytime soon, as a directive.

I do agree with the general principle that Petrol Stations should be able to link up to the database when deciding who to dispense fuel to though. Just think your proposal is a tad too far.

+ Can any one see any government IT contractor putting a IT scheme of this size in place that works?!
Sounds wonderful in the big scheme of things.
So little me goes to the block or buys a car on ebay. Rings my insurance company with the Reg No am I’m duly road legal as the motor had a bit of road tax left.
Next stop, juice. Sorry Sir, car not insured says data base. No juice or maybe over ride and 5L. If I bought the car, say in Scotland, thats a lot a juice stops on the way home.
Or DVLA data base crashes – No juice for anyone or free for all.
Civil Servants who run the data base go on strike for a couple of week – nightmare.
I’m all for it. Just needs sorting all the way through is all.
Under my notional scheme - the attendant in the petrol station would have the discretion , if so inclined , to override the system - but only to dispense 5L . The system would have to be so designed as to prevent repeated overrides to the same registration number .

IMHO, your idea is getting worse. This is exactly why we currently have such an expensive form of government: a 'bold new idea' gets all of the simplistic headlines, but turns out to require any number of half-baked band-aids to make it 'work'.

Frankly, I suspect that the number of service-station bods who want the power of discretion is vanishingly small. Because very few will want the job of telling apart the legitimately annoyed victims from the illegiitimately annoyed scumbags. Both will be arguing enthusiastically for petrol for an important trip. Can you really not see any number of forecourt confrontations over this sort of scheme?

Cost it up and tell me if it's cheaper to run than my suggestion. :)
Actually there is a far simpler way to sort out VED avoidance.. and it would cost nothing, and work 100% instantly. but they won't do it.

Scrap VED, and increase the tax on fuel to compensate for the loss of revenue. Its even green! far greener than the daft system we have. It used to be argued that the VED disc was a quick way to check that a car was MOT'd and insured.. (yeah right.. but thats what they said) but these days any officer can get this information before even stopping the car so there really is no justfication for the VED to exist
It's a very good idea in principle (the OP's idea) what concerns me is the accuracy of the data automatically retrieved, currently the data would be retrieved by a police officer, with, one would hope a certain amount of common sense, transfer that to the fuel station attendant, and issues might arise.
This may be why the police dont want to play ball.

As for the tax to go on fuel, by the time you remove the cost of administering the current data base, running the whole system, and then the costs involved in prosecuting offenders, the acutal rise in fuel cost due to this tax would be tiny, probably less than the average annual hike currently enforced on motorists when they need extra cash.

It would also give insurance companies one less hole to wriggle through, so they wont like it, also the police would complain, because right now it's a way of having a national database containing every drivers details in.
In principle, it's perfect, in reality those with ulterior motives will never let it happen.
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