GLE 350de rear unstable

[nasko82]

Hi everyone,

Has anyone experienced an unstable rear end on their GLE —especially when driving over drain covers or uneven road surfaces? In my case, when I go over these, the rear of the car feels like it swings or shifts for a split second. It’s a brief but noticeable sensation.

The car is a 2022 model with 38,000 miles on the clock. I’ve taken it back to the dealer to have the suspension checked, and they’ve confirmed that everything is fine. One person at the dealership mentioned that “they all do that.”

Has anyone else experienced this or found a solution? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Nas

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Sorry to read this, and unfortunately you’re not the first to mention it:

Thread 'W167 GLE twitching over manholes'

Jan 6, 2023

Hi All,
I have a '69 W167 GLE 400d Perm Plus w/22's, it had the rear dynamic shocks replaced under warranty, however, it still has the worst kicks over manholes, potholes, ridges in the road... Mercedes say all GLEs drive like it.. If so, I would suggest the car is not fit sale in the UK, its driving me crazy, I have paid for two laser alignments in 6K miles.. I think I am going to have to sell it.. Just waiting to wear the tyres out and see if new ones fix it --- Thoughts???

• craggleboy
• Replies: 8
• Forum: Wheels, Tyres, Brakes & Suspension

Which tyres do you have fitted, how much tread is left and is the tread depth even across the width of the tyre?

 

[nasko82]

Sorry to read this, and unfortunately you’re not the first to mention it:

Thread 'W167 GLE twitching over manholes'

Jan 6, 2023

Hi All,
I have a '69 W167 GLE 400d Perm Plus w/22's, it had the rear dynamic shocks replaced under warranty, however, it still has the worst kicks over manholes, potholes, ridges in the road... Mercedes say all GLEs drive like it.. If so, I would suggest the car is not fit sale in the UK, its driving me crazy, I have paid for two laser alignments in 6K miles.. I think I am going to have to sell it.. Just waiting to wear the tyres out and see if new ones fix it --- Thoughts???

• craggleboy
• Replies: 8
• Forum: Wheels, Tyres, Brakes & Suspension

Which tyres do you have fitted, how much tread is left and is the tread depth even across the width of the tyre?

Hi. The rears are 325/35/22 continentals with 5mm even tread. Regards

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

How long have you owned the car and how many miles have you covered? Has it always done this for as long as you’ve owned it or has the sensation you describe changed over time?

 

[MSG2004]

My sister purchased a brand-new S-Class, the L version, and IIRC, it was a 320. IIRC it was the year I got my first MB is when they bought it.
Their car went back to MB many times becuse they all felt the car's back "moved side to side a little when over unven road surfaces" etc I guess.
We were talking about cars and a few years later my nephew told me the issue had been resolved when they changed the tyres.

So, there is a small chance it is the tyres. Are the tyres original factory fit? It may be worth checking if people with the W167 who get this problem have the original tyres on the car or not. This investigtion should rule out/in tyres scenario.

I have a gle from new only 24k miles bought in 2016 - I drive gently most of the time but when pushed, I feel as though the car rocks a bit but I'm putting it down to being a heavy, tall car. My car does not have the air suspension. In sports mode there is a less of a judder/twitch but its only when driving it
with a slightly brisk pace.

 

[nasko82]

How long have you owned the car and how many miles have you covered? Has it always done this for as long as you’ve owned it or has the sensation you describe changed over time?

How long have you owned the car and how many miles have you covered? Has it always done this for as long as you’ve owned it or has the sensation you describe changed over time?

I bought the car in December, and it's felt like this since day one. I took it back to the dealer in February, but they said there was nothing wrong with the suspension. I also had a 4-wheel alignment check done, and everything was within spec—no adjustments were needed. The sensation hasn’t changed over time; it’s just always been there.

 

[Benz17]

In my E Class, I had the rear end twitch on drain covers, did read Run Flats could be the cause, as I wasn’t happy with the ride of the run flats, eventually changed to Non run flats, the twitch then didn’t happen.

 

[Mactech]

Unfortunately, the guy who said 'they all do that' is probably correct. But it depends on to what degree.
I have previously owned both ML and GLE on air suspension and I think I understand the sensation you are feeling. My 2017 GLE was worse than the more softly suspended ML and the trait could best be demonstrated by a diagonal pitching at very low speed when one wheel went into a pot hole.
I think the stylists are to blame for a lot of this! They draw concept cars on 10% ratio tyres and think its looks cool. They then have a part in signing off the cars and insist on the largest rims possible to get closer to their concept.
SUV's have a higher centre of gravity than saloon cars and so normally require stiffer anti roll bars to help contain the roll and weight of such vehicles.

A decade back, I was asked to develop these 'super SUVs' on the already specified 23" rims.

As you may well imagine, the suspension had a tough job to do to make the ride acceptable on tyres with very little wall height!
What I did find out was that Continental tyres were the worst in both ride and handling compared to the Michelin alternative we had in that size.
Again I blame the stylists for making us believe that SUVs should be on monster rims and very low profile tyres! Maybe it's ok on the billiard table smooth roads of Germany or if you are taking your SUV to trackdays, but I doubt you will.
This is why I waited for a Bentayga in the right spec and with the less popular 21" rims to come up before I bought mine. The other 'must have' for me was the 'Dynamic ride' system which can instantly disengage the anti-roll bars in one wheel bump using the 48v electrics, but can effectively negate roll completely in smooth cornering.
No magic bullet to solve your problem I'm afraid, but I would certainly look at either Michelin or Pirelli tyres when time comes for new tyres. They can make a very real difference.
I don't suppose you want to fit smaller diameter rims.

 

[nasko82]

Unfortunately, the guy who said 'they all do that' is probably correct. But it depends on to what degree.
I have previously owned both ML and GLE on air suspension and I think I understand the sensation you are feeling. My 2017 GLE was worse than the more softly suspended ML and the trait could best be demonstrated by a diagonal pitching at very low speed when one wheel went into a pot hole.
I think the stylists are to blame for a lot of this! They draw concept cars on 10% ratio tyres and think its looks cool. They then have a part in signing off the cars and insist on the largest rims possible to get closer to their concept.
SUV's have a higher centre of gravity than saloon cars and so normally require stiffer anti roll bars to help contain the roll and weight of such vehicles.

A decade back, I was asked to develop these 'super SUVs' on the already specified 23" rims.
View attachment 173632
As you may well imagine, the suspension had a tough job to do to make the ride acceptable on tyres with very little wall height!
What I did find out was that Continental tyres were the worst in both ride and handling compared to the Michelin alternative we had in that size.
Again I blame the stylists for making us believe that SUVs should be on monster rims and very low profile tyres! Maybe it's ok on the billiard table smooth roads of Germany or if you are taking your SUV to trackdays, but I doubt you will.
This is why I waited for a Bentayga in the right spec and with the less popular 21" rims to come up before I bought mine. The other 'must have' for me was the 'Dynamic ride' system which can instantly disengage the anti-roll bars in one wheel bump using the 48v electrics, but can effectively negate roll completely in smooth cornering.
No magic bullet to solve your problem I'm afraid, but I would certainly look at either Michelin or Pirelli tyres when time comes for new tyres. They can make a very real difference.
I don't suppose you want to fit smaller diameter rims.

Wow, this is probably the most detailed and well-presented reply I could have hoped for—thank you! I’ll definitely be replacing the tires with Michelins, as I always use them on my cars (in my opinion, they’re the best). The car came with Continentals, which I find have a very stiff sidewall.

 

[Bellow]

SUV's have a higher centre of gravity than saloon cars and so normally require stiffer anti roll bars to help contain the roll and weight of such vehicles.

In conjunction with higher roll centres.
Isn't the problem discussed one of the effect of track variation and ensuing scrub (scrub as per the suspension definition, not scrubbing/crabbing at shunting speed) which is difficult to avoid with independent suspension systems and worsened with elevated roll centre heights?

 

[Mactech]

In conjunction with higher roll centres.
Isn't the problem discussed one of the effect of track variation and ensuing scrub (scrub as per the suspension definition, not scrubbing/crabbing at shunting speed) which is difficult to avoid with independent suspension systems and worsened with elevated roll centre heights?

Track variation in heave is really a non event as the vehicle is almost always rolling as this happens. The wheels just roll into the new track width with minimal scrub. It is almost independent of roll centre height. (...and no, a high roll centre is not a hilltop bakery)

The crabbing at shunting speed is a function of not being able to produce the Akerman effect across the width of a solid front wheel/tyre assembly.
As front wheels get wider and stiffer, and tyres become lower profile with gripper tread and stiffer side wall construction, all these work against the inside of the wheel/tyre assembly having to travel a different distance to the outside of the assembly as they are now running different radius. As the weakest grip link is the tyre/road interface, so you get the skipping, chirping or cabbing effect.
Never a problem with the bicycle width tyres with tall sidewalls of old, but our obsession with wider and lower profile tyres, it certainly can be.
Proved again by when the tyres are colder and stiffer, the problem increases.
Little wonder that all season tyres with more and more flexible tread blocks, a tyre compound which is more flexible in cold condition masks the problem to some extent.

 

[Bellow]

Track variation in heave is really a non event as the vehicle is almost always rolling as this happens.

The wheels just roll into the new track width with minimal scrub.

But, there are situations where the motion is pure heave (possibly what the OP is describing) and the scrub must be reconciled and that is made more difficult with tyres that have stiff sidewalls and good grip. Single bump too gives rise to scrub. And we are left with the conundrum of all of the reconciliation being at the tyre contact patch or with the body of the vehicle moving laterally. In these moments the tyres grip is severely tested and if/when found wanting may be the cause of the reported feeling of instability reported by drivers of GLEs.

It is almost independent of roll centre height.

Define 'almost'! For independent systems with low roll centres track variation is much reduced - or eliminated entirely when the RC is at ground level.