GLE 3l d engine seizure

[Absolutelygutted]

Hi everyone,

I come here out of complete and utter desperation and for you all to probably pity my stupidity.

I bought a 2019 GLE coupe in September 2020 that was 18 months old with around 9000 miles on the clock. Never had any issues until now. It had had its A service done in august before I bought it (though they are saying it was due in March) as we were in lockdown when it was due.

Beginning of December I had just set off in the morning and without warning the car dies, no noises, lights or anything. Towed to the Mercedes garage and I’m told likely a seized engine should be covered under warranty. 2 weeks go by and the issue is raised that it is 2700 miles out on its service and i say I genuinely didn’t realise that it being out of service could void the warranty and I had been so poorly (I’m disabled) to get it done however I planned to get it done in the new year. I am told Mercedes want the entire engine stripped and if it’s not under warranty it will cost me 4K. I am deviated at this point as I feel no choice but to let them commence and hope it’s covered, especially when I call Mercedes complaints who tell me that it being over service would not completely void the warranty.

7 weeks go by of terrible customer service, extremely evasive staff, being told different things. At one point I was told that should it have been “bad/old” oil that caused this then they would have seen the issue by now only for him to back track once the engine is bare bones and say he never said that and now he’s found the cause, it was low and behold, a lack of lubrication. They are saying it is a distinct possibility that it’s “bad servicing history” caused the failure. He said that the oil is full of debris from the bearing failure.

My questions are;

Is it reasonable that this could happen on a 2.7 yr old car that’s done 26k miles?
Do they really know the lack of service caused it or are they clutching at straws?
Are there any signs that would show in other parts of the engine that it was “old/useless” oil?
Is it worth me getting an independent report?
What is my best hope? Push that it wasn’t the “old” oil?
Or persue a good will gester of some sort?

Does anybody think there’s any hope of me getting this paid or part paid by Mercedes? I am looking at 12-13k bill and I currently owe 42k on a worthless vehicle.

Help me.

 

[DSM10000]

Oil that is used for a few months extra wouldn't cause this to happen. It is low oil levels that are far more of an issue.

Did you or someone check the oil level regularly on the vehicle?

 

[BigJase88]

Yeah going 2700 miles over a service would not have caused this issue especially at 26k miles

Some cars have 20k mile oil change intervals.

Either engine fault from new or low oil.

 

[SmartAmg]

Not under good circumstances but, Welcome anyway, hope you get it sorted.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I’m really sorry to hear your news. Missing the service would not in itself cause this, but as suggested already low oil levels might. That said there should have been all sorts of warnings appearing on your dashboard as the oil levels reduced, like “top up oil at next fuel stop”, “low oil” or “visit workshop”.

Engines burn oil but to burn enough for a catostophic engine failure in 17,000 miles would be unlikely for such a new engine - this assumes the oil was correctly filled at the last service. So the alternative could be a fairly significant leak, have there been any signs like oil on the ground, splashes on paintwork, etc?

So all is not lost because, the root cause could be a faulty oil level sensor, a problem with the engine causing it to burn excessive oil, or an oil leak. All of those could have starved the engine of oil leading to the bearing failure. Knowing how much oil was still in the engine when it was disassembled would be useful.

A few questions:
Has dealer told you how much oil was in the engine?
How many miles were covered between services?
Any signs of oil leaks on the ground or paintwork?
Were the anybwarning messages or warning lights on the dashboard?

 

[Harrythedog]

If there were any faults or warnings would they not have appeared on STAR when the car was checked over for the engine failure fault?

 

[Absolutelygutted]

Thankyou for everybody’s quick response.

I actually don’t have the report nor has anybody even called me to discuss findings. I got an email after the garage closed yesterday off the after sales manager with loose second hand information, these are his exact words;

On inspection of the vehicle we removed the first crankshaft and we removed the bearing caps from the front and back of the crankshaft, there was no real visible damage to the bearing caps, the second away from the front were stuck onto the crankshaft, there was a lot of damage to the caps and the crank. There are also two large pieces of metal sat on the crank bearing, on the third crankshaft bearing away from the front and we are unable to remove the caps because they have become welded onto the crankshaft, the Oil journal holes are blocked and the swarf has come from these two sets of bearing caps. The oil sample shows a large amount of debris from the bearing failure.

He then said the car is unwarrantable and Mercedes will not be covering cost at this time and asked if I’d like them to price it. No report, no details, nothing.

Upon reading again am I right in assuming they just don’t know what caused it, and in the absence of any other evidence they’re leaning on the oil?

I know that there was “enough oil for it not to seize”, they’re the words they have used to me. No evidence of oil leak from my side.

I don’t know exactly how many miles it had done between services but I will find out.

This morning, after I emailed back last night expressing that I do not agree with the findings and telling him I want an oil sample, he emailed and offered to meet me at the garage tomorrow morning. Unsure if he’s going to just try and reiterate in person and I’ll be wasting my time?

How would you deal with this?

Thankyou

 

[Absolutelygutted]

Also no lights or warnings lit up before the car died, no engine or oil lights, nothing.

 

[Absolutelygutted]

I’m really sorry to hear your news. Missing the service would not in itself cause this, but as suggested already low oil levels might. That said there should have been all sorts of warnings appearing on your dashboard as the oil levels reduced, like “top up oil at next fuel stop”, “low oil” or “visit workshop”.

Engines burn oil but to burn enough for a catostophic engine failure in 17,000 miles would be unlikely for such a new engine - this assumes the oil was correctly filled at the last service. So the alternative could be a fairly significant leak, have there been any signs like oil on the ground, splashes on paintwork, etc?

So all is not lost because, the root cause could be a faulty oil level sensor, a problem with the engine causing it to burn excessive oil, or an oil leak. All of those could have starved the engine of oil leading to the bearing failure. Knowing how much oil was still in the engine when it was disassembled would be useful.

A few questions:
Has dealer told you how much oil was in the engine?
How many miles were covered between services?
Any signs of oil leaks on the ground or paintwork?
Were the anybwarning messages or warning lights on the dashboard?

Hi, would there by evidence on the engine of it burning off excessive oil or is that one of those silent killer situations?

 

[vijilants]

If the engine was burning excessive oil you would know about it by the level of smoke that were being thrown out of the exhaust and possibly engine management lights on the dash popping up.

Also if the oil was low you would have had a low oil warning on the dash....not sure if the ecu would have recorded the fact that the oil was low.

Sounds more lke a catastrophic component failure to me and they are trying to wriggle out of it. If the bearings are gradually on their way out, you would notice it by knocking noises from the engine.

Speak to the dealership Manager. If you get no joy you need to to take this up with with Mercedes Benz UK. If you get no joy there, find the name of the CEO and take it up with him.

Last resort, legal advice....you can usually get this free via your Car Insurance (if it is offered), home insurance (if it is offered) or Which magazine legal team..

 

[MancRick101]

This is unacceptable. As above, you want to know (preferably in writing by email) the quantity of oil in the engine when they began the inspection. It sounds, from your posts, that the correct quantity was present. A very modern Diesel engine should absolutely not suffer catastrophic engine failure after going 2.7k miles over the service schedule.

Sounds like you need to lodge a written complaint with MBUK and potentially take this to the ombudsman.

Yes, missing the scheduled service is not great, but they are leaning far too heavily on that and washing their hands as a result.

Forget the ‘after sales’ chump and go direct to MBUK would be my gut feeling.

Have they provided you with a courtesy car? Probably not as you seem to have to book 3 weeks + in advance to get one these days.

Wishing you the very best in what is an awful situation.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

If the engine was burning excessive oil you would know about it by the level of smoke that were being thrown out of the exhaust and possibly engine management lights on the dash popping up.

Also if the oil was low you would have had a low oil warning on the dash....not sure if the ecu would have recorded the fact that the oil was low.

Sounds more lke a catastrophic component failure to me and they are trying to wriggle out of it. If the bearings are gradually on their way out, you would notice it by knocking noises from the engine.

Speak to the dealership Manager. If you get no joy you need to to take this up with with Mercedes Benz UK. If you get no joy there, find the name of the CEO and take it up with him.

Last resort, legal advice....you can usually get this free via your Car Insurance (if it is offered), home insurance (if it is offered) or Which magazine legal team..

It sounds to me like a failed component - if it were just due to low oil surely there would also be damage elsewhere - pistons/rings, cylinders etc? I would think the temperature would have got very high as well. Not sure if that would have been recorded anywhere.

I also seem to remember reading that Mercedes increased the service intervals due to covid. Nearest i could find was this - not sure if that helps the cause?

https://www.jct600.co.uk/news/mercedes-benz-offers-servicing-guidance-to-cu/23240/newsdetail.aspx

 

[Bellow]

If the oil was circulating as the bearings failed the filter will contain larges amounts of debris.
If the oil was not circulating and the bearings failed the filter will contain very little if any debris.

I think you need the following:
The filter (so it can be scrutinised re the above).
A representative sample of the oil (the oil needs to be agitated and a sample drawn from mid-height) and submit it for analysis.
The exact quantity of oil present in the engine when it seized.

 

[Ted]

Is this of any help?

covid-19 statement

smart UK covid-19 statement

www.smart.mercedes-benz.com

Edit: already covered by @ChrisHGTV

 

[Petrol Pete]

The sump oil level sensor might have failed (I would expect it to 'fail safe' ) but it could be faulty , a quick scan would pick that up . Or now the sump is of it would be very easy to test on the bench.

 

[Absolutelygutted]

The sump oil level sensor might have failed (I would expect it to 'fail safe' ) but it could be faulty , a quick scan would pick that up . Or now the sump is of it would be very easy to test on the bench.

Would that be covered by mechanical failure?

 

[Absolutelygutted]

It sounds to me like a failed component - if it were just due to low oil surely there would also be damage elsewhere - pistons/rings, cylinders etc? I would think the temperature would have got very high as well. Not sure if that would have been recorded anywhere.

I also seem to remember reading that Mercedes increased the service intervals due to covid. Nearest i could find was this - not sure if that helps the cause?

https://www.jct600.co.uk/news/mercedes-benz-offers-servicing-guidance-to-cu/23240/newsdetail.aspx

Thankyou. Am I right in that this is saying that with a pre paid service plan you get a grace period of 3742 miles? Therefore they clearly think the car should last that long with no issues.

 

[Will]

Ouch! :-(

Just trying to work from your details, has it gone 17k miles since the last service (August 2020) with no oil change? How about oil top ups? I know MB did allow some flexibility on servicing due to the COVID situation a couple of years back but I don’t think that can be used as an excuse now.

I hate to say it, but if the engine hadn’t seized when would you have taken it in? Playing devils advocate, I know you’d said about the new year but it would have been pinging up for a service due since before last August (usually the ASSYST system calls for a service a month before, to give time to schedule it, so in July 2021?). It would have done this every day you drove it - and continued to do so every day since the service was due (exceeded). That’s quite a long time overdue and looks like you’ve covered quite a few miles also (exceeded the service interval both in terms of time and mileage).

Like I say, this is how MB will see it - and it’s unfortunate that the fault you have suffered could be intrinsically linked to the lack of servicing - ie possible lubrication failure or oil level etc.

Had it have been a faulty starter motor or water pump or something then I guess it maybe not such an awkward situation, but it doesn’t look good in these sorts of situations. No one on here can say that it would have still seized when it did if it had been serviced on time, you’ll never really know.

I’m sorry to hear of your woes and hope you can get some resolution, but in the context of balance I have to say I can understand both views and I’m not sure anyone can blame MB for their initial stance either, especially when the fault could be directly linked to the lack of servicing (oil condition, level and or condition of filter etc)

Hope you get something sorted out

 

[ChrisHGTV]

Thankyou. Am I right in that this is saying that with a pre paid service plan you get a grace period of 3742 miles? Therefore they clearly think the car should last that long with no issues.

Well don't quote me on this because ive never actually looked through the small print. But yes i would say if Mercedes are giving a grace period/extended range between service intervals that could be taken as confirmation this has no significant detrimental affect, and may allow you to counter their argument that you had exceeded the service interval by mileage. I thought the extended service intervals also applied to servicing outside the dealer network but im not sure on this (to preserve a full service history kind of thing)

 

[Absolutelygutted]

Ouch! :-(

Just trying to work from your details, has it gone 17k miles since the last service (August 2020) with no oil change? How about oil top ups? I know MB did allow some flexibility on servicing due to the COVID situation a couple of years back but I don’t think that can be used as an excuse now.

I hate to say it, but if the engine hadn’t seized when would you have taken it in? Playing devils advocate, I know you’d said about the new year but it would have been pinging up for a service due since before last August (usually the ASSYST system calls for a service a month before, to give time to schedule it, so in July 2021?). It would have done this every day you drove it - and continued to do so every day since the service was due (exceeded). That’s quite a long time overdue and looks like you’ve covered quite a few miles also (exceeded the service interval both in terms of time and mileage).

Like I say, this is how MB will see it - and it’s unfortunate that the fault you have suffered could be intrinsically linked to the lack of servicing - ie possible lubrication failure or oil level etc.

Had it have been a faulty starter motor or water pump or something then I guess it maybe not such an awkward situation, but it doesn’t look good in these sorts of situations. No one on here can say that it would have still seized when it did if it had been serviced on time, you’ll never really know.

I’m sorry to hear of your woes and hope you can get some resolution, but in the context of balance I have to say I can understand both views and I’m not sure anyone can blame MB for their initial stance either, especially when the fault could be directly linked to the lack of servicing (oil condition, level and or condition of filter etc)

Hope you get something sorted out

Thankyou, I appreciate your input.

I am unsure of the exact mileage when I bought it but I actually believe it to be around 12k. It’s now got 26k on the clock. I am going to check paperwork when I’m home.

The thing is as you say, nobody can prove either way what caused the failure so I’m looking at getting an independent report.

There’s also an issue of customer service. 7 weeks they have had my car with no end in sight, it’s been horrific.