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st4
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I see it as a cult, my views are well known on this area.
Dieselman
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But as your thoughts go against the general scientific understanding, can you PROVE you are right.?
For an understanding of what the issues may mean economically may I suggest you read the stearn report.
It isn't for commercial gain so there shouldn't be commercial manipulation.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/indep...nomics_climate_change/stern_review_report.cfm
Dieselman
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It hurts my eyes - can you read it for me and summarise? Thanks
Ok.....
Global warming is a real problem and is going to create significant climate problems which will have massive effects on crop production, energy generation, available land, water and huge economic problems.
Was that breif enough.?
I have actually read some of this......
How interesting is this bit.?
Due to higher temperatures France couldn't generate enough electricity because their Nuclear power stations were overheating the warmer rivers and so not enough cooling was being provided for the plant.
Gucci
MB Enthusiast
Excellent thanks - I reckon there's plenty of knowledge and technology out there for alternative power sources. It just needs to have the backing of the governments to fund - I suspect however that the oil companies are far too powerful to allow it
Dieselman
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Actually our own Government is funding alternate power by offering Tax breaks for companies doing just that.
And many other countries have systems in place for use of renewables, including......China....
Oh, no, what have I said....
And many other countries have systems in place for use of renewables, including......China....
Oh, no, what have I said....
TonyVianoAmbiente
Active Member
This is known as "proof by assertion". If he repeats it often enough, some ignorant person will believe it.
Climate change deniers are exactly the same as Holocaust deniers. They see something that is, to them, an inconvenient truth. Then they deny it, so they don't have to worry their heads about it any longer.
In science, there are always contrary views. It would be unusual if there were not any scientists who were sceptical about climate change.
But what is unusual is just how few sceptics there are. In the history of science, there has never been such a strong consensus on a major scientific issue as there is on climate change.
There will always be deniers. Just as there will always be Holocaust deniers, there will always be climate change deniers. In both cases, they consist of people who stubbornly refuse to accept an unprecedented body of evidence that all points consistently in one direction.
TonyVianoAmbiente
Active Member
Excellent thanks - I reckon there's plenty of knowledge and technology out there for alternative power sources. It just needs to have the backing of the governments to fund - I suspect however that the oil companies are far too powerful to allow it
You're absolutely right. The clearest evidence of the oil industry's attitude towards renewables is in Shell Oil's recent decision to pull out of developing the Thames Array, which would have been the largest offshore wind farm in the world. The project is likely to be cancelled or significantly scaled down if another partner cannot be found.
Apparently Shell have also refocused their business away from other renewables and away from energy conservation. For example, Shell had previously stated that they would never get involved in the exploitation of Canada's Athabasca Oil Sands Project because of the environmental devastation and enormous CO2 emissions that result from extracting the oil from the sand.
Now Shell have gone back on their word, and invested huge anounts of money in the project by buying Canada's largest operator in that oil field.
BP is also quietly moving away from its "Beyond Petroleum" campaign which emphasised energy conservation and renewables, and regressing back toward being an old-fashioned oil company.
TomTanderson
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This is the Wizard of Oz approach to problem solution......there is some magic man who is going to just make all our problems disappear without us having to do anything at all.
........now if I can just click my heels hard enough
Ade B
MB Enthusiast
I was trying to find stuff on line earlier and the problem seems to be the sceptics (Timothy Ball etc.) seem to come up far more in searches than anyone else - clearly consensus is not newsworthy.
Having said that, I read an article in the RIBA journal today which was evangelical in its zeal and gloomy predictions of doom related to CO2 output and climate change - with journalism that bad, it does make it compelling to believe that there is no issue...
Will wade through Stern Review at some point..
Ade
Having said that, I read an article in the RIBA journal today which was evangelical in its zeal and gloomy predictions of doom related to CO2 output and climate change - with journalism that bad, it does make it compelling to believe that there is no issue...
Will wade through Stern Review at some point..
Ade
PAPA
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Well the latest news say its having a bit of a rest for 10 years lol
The trouble is, Its not happening ! All the doom and gloom warnings, Then when nothing was really happening they come up with, its stopped for 10 years rubbish.
Bio fuels to help the fight ?
How much carbon will be given off by millions of rotting bodys of peeps with no food, That died because farmers are growing Bio fuels.
I think its all tish, Its a cycle the earth go's through, What ever we do.
Peeps talk as if its a fact, But the truth is no one really knows.
Look at what has come before... In the 70s we was told of a mini iceage, Millennium bug anyone ? Planes falling from the sky, The world shutting down, death and mayhem... What happend NOTHING not a sausage !
The trouble is, Its not happening ! All the doom and gloom warnings, Then when nothing was really happening they come up with, its stopped for 10 years rubbish.
Bio fuels to help the fight ?
How much carbon will be given off by millions of rotting bodys of peeps with no food, That died because farmers are growing Bio fuels.
I think its all tish, Its a cycle the earth go's through, What ever we do.
Peeps talk as if its a fact, But the truth is no one really knows.
Look at what has come before... In the 70s we was told of a mini iceage, Millennium bug anyone ? Planes falling from the sky, The world shutting down, death and mayhem... What happend NOTHING not a sausage !
A bit harsh.
the holocaust still has survivors and pictures and video .
We know climate change exists. what we dispute is the fact that it is caused by man or cars. we know climate has been changing before cars or the industrial revolution.
yes we may have a little effect but no where near the doomsday scale and personally i think as for resources running out/lack of food and renewables, that is due to overpopulation and not climate change.
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That is caused by overpopulation and not global warming.
Ade B
MB Enthusiast
Reduce pollution, or start culling people - mandatory sterilization, one in one out....?
You mention overpopulation frequently, could you direct me to sources. I think there is some truth in the assertion, however it is rarely referred to in the stuff I've read (except related to congestion in the SE
)Ade
Reduce pollution, or start culling people - mandatory sterilization, one in one out....?
You mention overpopulation frequently, could you direct me to sources. I think there is some truth in the assertion, however it is rarely referred to in the stuff I've read (except related to congestion in the SE
Ade
Overpopulation is not mentioned directly as a cause, more by implicaton - i.e. "if we are going to meet the needs of a growing population...`" etc. The main reason for the extra concern now is that the countries most likely to experience explosions in population are the ones now beginning to become prosperous.
It hurts my eyes - can you read it for me and summarise? Thanks
Me too pls. Too much jargons. No crystal mark.
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Perhaps they have realised (and researched) that the populous are moving away from the hype being pedalled that its man and the machine causing the problems.
True global climate change (not just warming) is happening but its got naff all to do with cars. The planet was heating up and cooling down for thousands of years all the time we had volcanoes going off and then the ice age. It is all part of the cycle of the earths life. Sure we should be environmetally aware and not cut down all the trees and recycle where we can. However, lets not let the greens blow this out of proportion. If the earth can recover from the enormous changes it has been through over the thousands of years so far, then if mother nature decides its time to heat up and kill off all life, then there is nothing whatsoever we can do about it.
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Yes but according to the US Senate report (see below) a significant number of the people forming the consensus are not scientists at all.
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport
It was also shown recently (though I cannot easily put my hand on the source) that the world's temperature has not risen in the last ten years. There was another report saying that there is unlikely to be any global warming in the next ten years.
Climate change exists. The climate has changed many times over the life of the earth and will continue to do so. All the arguments are whether the recent changes are due to man's influence. Unfortunately, this is now becoming very much like religion, you choose your "faith" and declare anyone who disagrees a non believer.
