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Thrash

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A couple of years ago I remember reading about £200 a month lease deals on Golf Rs, not sure what the deals are like nowadays but no doubt those deals had a big effect on the used market. Similar thing will happen with the M140i - I remember when I got mine I would hardly ever see one (or an M135i for that matter) but now I see 140s nearly every time I'm driving. I'm still on the FB group from when I had mine, people are really struggling to sell them at reasonable prices.
 

MrRight

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Having owned various bmw and Mercedes over the years, the driving experience of a bmw is far superior to that of a Mercedes. It would take something special for me to go back to Mercedes again.
unlikely. depends on what you mean by superior which is very subjective . better handling and balance come at the expense of a mediocre ride quality generally , uninteresting interior and inferior safety and tech, and generally poor reliability vs merc. The f series m4 isnt a patch on the 205 c63 either . That said, going back almost 2 decades ago , there was nothing that wasnt a super car that could match an M3 and an M5.

why dont people buy the M140i? well the golf r has better ride quality and is a better all rounder. that being said, the m140 has the biggest displacement engine in its class and is more interesting to drive but also cant handle wet weather and is especially disappointing in that it doesnt come with an lsd. lastly it is great till you drive it at around 7 to 8ths and then starts to struggle quite badly vs a more serious car like an RS3 or A45 or focus RS. Other than that, it represents fantastic value for a reasonably high performance hatch. But I assume its rather drab exterior and interior compared to a very sleek golf r is another disadvantage. Would I buy one? probably not , I'd buy an e92 m3 or w204 c63 but I would recommend it over someone who wants to buy an Audi s3, sure !
 

John

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In my younger years, I had many E36 BMWs as well as an E39 and they suited how I drove back then. Handling was very important and they were quite comfy (the M3 Evo and Alpina B10 especially given what they were - although saying that, that was in comparison to lesser tat).

Having driven a 2014 640d more recently, I find Mercedes to be a far more comfortable drive but maybe they can't keep up in the handling compared to regular BMWs (AMGs and Ms aside).

But that suits me fine with how I drive now anyway.

BMW leaves me cold now with the current generation so I assume I am not their target market anymore.
 

RSTurbo50

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unlikely. depends on what you mean by superior which is very subjective . better handling and balance come at the expense of a mediocre ride quality generally , uninteresting interior and inferior safety and tech, and generally poor reliability vs merc. The f series m4 isnt a patch on the 205 c63 either . That said, going back almost 2 decades ago , there was nothing that wasnt a super car that could match an M3 and an M5.

why dont people buy the M140i? well the golf r has better ride quality and is a better all rounder. that being said, the m140 has the biggest displacement engine in its class and is more interesting to drive but also cant handle wet weather and is especially disappointing in that it doesnt come with an lsd. lastly it is great till you drive it at around 7 to 8ths and then starts to struggle quite badly vs a more serious car like an RS3 or A45 or focus RS. Other than that, it represents fantastic value for a reasonably high performance hatch. But I assume its rather drab exterior and interior compared to a very sleek golf r is another disadvantage. Would I buy one? probably not , I'd buy an e92 m3 or w204 c63 but I would recommend it over someone who wants to buy an Audi s3, sure !

I wouldnt say that BMW cars have a poor interior. My previous F30 and my current M135i are actually very comfortable places to be. The seating position is superb and you sit nice and low. The Pro SatNav is excellent as is the harmon kardon speaker system. The quality of the plastics is also very good and everything feels just right. When you look at the current C Class with it cheap, flimsy entertainment screen. It looks like an after thought. Also the black plastic centre console feels cheap and nasty and is very easily scratched. Also did I mention the hideous interior of the previous W204 C Class, especially the pre facelift was like something out of an 80's Vauxhall Astra. Also poor reliability vs the Merc? In all of the years I have had various BMW.s including M3's, an E39 M5, 740i Sport and many many others, I have never had anything major go wrong with any of them. The current M4 is lovely. I think the current C63 coupe is fat and bubble like and the previous C63 looked much sharper, much more aggressive with nicer lines than the current one.

Also lets remember that the M135i/M140i is not a full blown M car. The fact it doesnt shout about how it looks is also an appeal for me. Yes on a wet country lane a Golf R would be faster but for everyday driving with its silky 6 cylinder engine id take the BMW anyday of the week.
 

RSTurbo50

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^ I think you are preaching to the wrong audience. This is a Mercedes forum after all;)

Very true AMGeed, i like both Mercedes and BMW. Just a shame that the engine choice appears to be quite limited in Mercedes. You either buy a 4 cylinder diesel or a 4 cylinder petrol engine unless of course you are fortunate to be able to afford an AMG. At least BMW offer a 6 cylinder diesel engine in its 3 series or a 6 cylinder petrol engine. I did quite like the W205 AMG Line but i couldnt live with that rough 4 cylinder diesel noise everyday, if they had say a C350 diesel i possibly might have bought one.
 

Will

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Very true AMGeed, i like both Mercedes and BMW. Just a shame that the engine choice appears to be quite limited in Mercedes. You either buy a 4 cylinder diesel or a 4 cylinder petrol engine unless of course you are fortunate to be able to afford an AMG. At least BMW offer a 6 cylinder diesel engine in its 3 series or a 6 cylinder petrol engine. I did quite like the W205 AMG Line but i couldnt live with that rough 4 cylinder diesel noise everyday, if they had say a C350 diesel i possibly might have bought one.
I thought Mercedes did the ‘43 and ‘53 range of entry level AMGs with the twin turbo V6 engines for that very reason. You still have the V8s for the full fat ‘63s :cool:
 

RSTurbo50

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I thought Mercedes did the ‘43 and ‘53 range of entry level AMGs with the twin turbo V6 engines for that very reason. You still have the V8s for the full fat ‘63s :cool:

Indeed but what if you dont want to buy a full fat AMG car but still want the silky performance of a 6 pot in a C or E Class? I guess its the sign of the times and Mercedes dont see the market for such cars unless you want the AMG experience..
 

Will

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AMG engines can be pretty smooth to be honest. I think people like the AMG styling anyway as many of the small engined models eg diesel C-class etc seem to come with bodykits/wheels etc. So I’m guessing MB did their homework and realised there was a gap in the market for reasonably quick 6 cylinder petrol models :)
 

MrRight

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I wouldnt say that BMW cars have a poor interior. My previous F30 and my current M135i are actually very comfortable places to be. The seating position is superb and you sit nice and low. The Pro SatNav is excellent as is the harmon kardon speaker system. The quality of the plastics is also very good and everything feels just right. When you look at the current C Class with it cheap, flimsy entertainment screen. It looks like an after thought. Also the black plastic centre console feels cheap and nasty and is very easily scratched. Also did I mention the hideous interior of the previous W204 C Class, especially the pre facelift was like something out of an 80's Vauxhall Astra. Also poor reliability vs the Merc? In all of the years I have had various BMW.s including M3's, an E39 M5, 740i Sport and many many others, I have never had anything major go wrong with any of them. The current M4 is lovely. I think the current C63 coupe is fat and bubble like and the previous C63 looked much sharper, much more aggressive with nicer lines than the current one.

Also lets remember that the M135i/M140i is not a full blown M car. The fact it doesnt shout about how it looks is also an appeal for me. Yes on a wet country lane a Golf R would be faster but for everyday driving with its silky 6 cylinder engine id take the BMW anyday of the week.

I think we can agree to disagree on quite a few things there. other than value for money on a new or nearly new m140i compared to its peers , putting price out of the equation, it isnt the best car in its class. even with that 6 cylinder motor and RWD. 2 things i love. not by a long way. I'm glad you bought one and good for you. As a driving tool, the 3 series certainly impresses , compared to the c class, but when you go up to my arena which is minimum C43 or bmw340i, the AMG factor starts to show and the C43 is a far better car than the 340. And there in lies the problem for me with the current batch of m cars other than the M5 and the M2 competition it seems , if you're unlucky enough to buy a pre "competition " m2 or M4 then you would understand the frustration. m division are getting it quite wrong out of the box and producing something sub par . and then release what they should have a couple of years down the line. frankly it is shameful .
even the new X3M seems to have fallen far short of the glc 63 or the go fast stelvio. such a pointless dull vehicle it seems.

The CEO Harald Krueger is stepping down too.

The problem with your comparison of the c63 and the M4 is one of looks. if you were to drive each extensively then you might see where the M4 falls short. The merc exterior is poor for what it is trying to be , certainly , but the rear end of the bmw looks terrible too . the front is dope though. only the 4 door m3 f series looks half decent because it has broken lines with the rear doors. the interior is drab and boring as hell.

in terms of driving experience , my e46 m3 certainly thrills me far more than the f series M3 ever could , not sure why that's the case but there in lies the problem with the current batch of go fast bmws. they lack that x factor which is a shame. who would be crazy enough to spend 90k on an M4 cs for example. it's simply ludicrous.
 

Bobby Dazzler

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To be fair, even MB are guilty of making the newer stuff a little antisocial. Compared to the old school AMGs - ‘speak softly and carry a big stick’, since the quad pipe ‘63s appeared they’ve become gradually noisier and more extrovert in character - a little shouty perhaps. My GL is pretty loud on cold start, and even my old E63 was a lot more raucous than the ‘55 range etc. Not what I’m keen on but if it sells cars...?
It will probably make the farty noise on WOT up shifts too, as long as you’re in sports mode for both transmission and suspension :crazy:
 

Bobby Dazzler

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Indeed but what if you dont want to buy a full fat AMG car but still want the silky performance of a 6 pot in a C or E Class? I guess its the sign of the times and Mercedes dont see the market for such cars unless you want the AMG experience..
The 43/53 models are a little softer than the 63 in all respects.
 

RSTurbo50

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I think we can agree to disagree on quite a few things there. other than value for money on a new or nearly new m140i compared to its peers , putting price out of the equation, it isnt the best car in its class. even with that 6 cylinder motor and RWD. 2 things i love. not by a long way. I'm glad you bought one and good for you. As a driving tool, the 3 series certainly impresses , compared to the c class, but when you go up to my arena which is minimum C43 or bmw340i, the AMG factor starts to show and the C43 is a far better car than the 340. And there in lies the problem for me with the current batch of m cars other than the M5 and the M2 competition it seems , if you're unlucky enough to buy a pre "competition " m2 or M4 then you would understand the frustration. m division are getting it quite wrong out of the box and producing something sub par . and then release what they should have a couple of years down the line. frankly it is shameful .
even the new X3M seems to have fallen far short of the glc 63 or the go fast stelvio. such a pointless dull vehicle it seems.

The CEO Harald Krueger is stepping down too.

The problem with your comparison of the c63 and the M4 is one of looks. if you were to drive each extensively then you might see where the M4 falls short. The merc exterior is poor for what it is trying to be , certainly , but the rear end of the bmw looks terrible too . the front is dope though. only the 4 door m3 f series looks half decent because it has broken lines with the rear doors. the interior is drab and boring as hell.

in terms of driving experience , my e46 m3 certainly thrills me far more than the f series M3 ever could , not sure why that's the case but there in lies the problem with the current batch of go fast bmws. they lack that x factor which is a shame. who would be crazy enough to spend 90k on an M4 cs for example. it's simply ludicrous.

MrRight in fairness much of what you say is fairly subjective and it all goes down to personal preference at the end of the day. Both Mercedes and bmw make superb cars, god forbid if I ever bought an Audi. Previous generation M cars such as the E39 M5 and the E36 M3 for me typified what a ‘proper’ bmw was all about. Sadly some of that magic has gone but at the same time the new generation M cars are light years ahead in pretty much every way.

As for diesel cars, why didnt they put a 6 cylinder diesel in the c class? My previous F30 330d m sport was possibly the best all round car Iv ever had, excellent mpg and brutal performance from a diesel. I shudder to think what the 335d would be like. Mercedes for whatever reason only offered the C250d as it’s top diesel, who wants to drive something which sounds like a taxi?

As for the F30 M3/M4 I’d take one over the C63. Then again I’d take the E63s over the M5....

I think Mercedes AMG have slowly closed the gap over the years and this is evident with the amount on the road.
 
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John

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m division are getting it quite wrong out of the box and producing something sub par . and then release what they should have a couple of years down the line. frankly it is shameful .

Call me cynical but I wonder if they do this to mop up the early-adopter market.

Those with their fingers in their ears who buy one car because "It's top of the range, mate" or "I can drive it on the school run and impress all the other mums" or whatever.

People with no interest in what the car is or can do.

Then they bring out the version which is what the serious contingent are waiting for either at new or second hand further down the line.

Then again, maybe there isn't this much thought behind it and they just react to the feedback eventually.
 

SW18

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Call me cynical but I wonder if they do this to mop up the early-adopter market.

Those with their fingers in their ears who buy one car because "It's top of the range, mate" or "I can drive it on the school run and impress all the other mums" or whatever.

People with no interest in what the car is or can do.

Then they bring out the version which is what the serious contingent are waiting for either at new or second hand further down the line.

Then again, maybe there isn't this much thought behind it and they just react to the feedback eventually.

I’m certain that you are right. Everything about the way new models are trickled out to market seems to support this. I asked a BMW dealer about it once whilst eyeing up a 1-yr old 325i on their forecourt and they told me that a lot of their regular customers would order the new model as soon as it was launched and then trade it up a year or so later when the flagship was launched (a 335i in the case of that car). I questioned the logic in terms of the huge cost and the reply was ‘that’s not an issue for these customers’ (I’m sure he’d already pegged me as not one of that set given my arrival in a tired Golf and my lack of expensive apparel).
 

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