Good bye diesel cars ..will this make secondhand cars almost worthless

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They could do a lot worse than enforcing the law for (CUR, 98) those people who sit with their engines running whilst parked (not stationary in traffic) for comfort or convenience i.e. powering electrical gadgets, aircon etc.

agree.

especially estate agents!

and salesfolks
 
C240Sport97 said:
The issue in London has a lot to do with the older black cabs, the older buses and the white van man.
I'm in London most of my week driving all over and most black cabs and buses are the worst culprit for banging out black smoke
What restrictions do they have??
 
Hmm not by much as fuel injection has been in cars for over 30 years now

From 1995 - when cats become the norm - a consequence of emission legislation. The decade prior they were the preserve of performance cars. A Golf GTi was not cheap!

So what your telling me the people that were having protests over fuel cost are wrong then?

I remember them. Usually headed up by someone driving a Range Rover...

still doesn't answer for the rising road tax though

Mine is £30. So could yours be - or lower. You choose your car knowing what the VED will cost you.

At the end of the day we will be taxed heavily for owning car beit petrol or diesel Just waiting for the day when they find a reason to tax electric cars, they aren't truly green cars are they? Still put emission into the atmosphere not directly admittedly but the energy has to come from somewhere to charge the batteries...power stations that burn fossil fuel!!

You have never heard of renewal energy? Refusing to countenance renewable energy is the sure fire route to a tax on electric vehicles.
 
The Government said before the election there would be no additional VED rises for diesel engine vehicles, so I doubt this will happen. :p

Exactly, so VED rises for diesels is defo going to happen :thumb:

Like Dryce says, plenty of other ways (stelf taxes) that they will **** on diesel cars but avoid the big polluters like lorries, buses, taxis and vans
 
Bellow said:
From 1995 - when cats become the norm - a consequence of emission legislation. The decade prior they were the preserve of performance cars. A Golf GTi was not cheap! I remember them. Usually headed up by someone driving a Range Rover... Mine is £30. So could yours be - or lower. You choose your car knowing what the VED will cost you. You have never heard of renewal energy? Refusing to countenance renewable energy is the sure fire route to a tax on electric vehicles.
Oh yeah sorry I forgot about wind turbines and solar panels
Because they are so effective in keeping up with demands NOT!
Wind turbines- not enough of them to make much difference
Solar panel-well we live in the UK don't think I need to further than that
If renewable energy was as effective as people may lead u to believe then why was it s short while ago was the government talking about building more nuclear power stations
 
.Then there is the ludicrous situation of NO2 levels plummeting when there was a bus strike in Oxford Street (a measuring point); no doubt it would be similar if taxis were banned for a day.

That puts me in mind of something I read a while back , not long after bus deregulation , when the streets of Glasgow seemed to fill up with ancient ex-London Routemasters and their kin .

It was reported by one of the 'green' organisations that Hope St here in Glasgow was the most polluted street in Europe !

Only thing was , a good part of Hope St was , and remains , BUSES AND TAXIS ONLY !
 
Oh yeah sorry I forgot about wind turbines and solar panels
Because they are so effective in keeping up with demands NOT!
Wind turbines- not enough of them to make much difference
Solar panel-well we live in the UK don't think I need to further than that

''Not enough of them''? Correct - a mixture of NIMBYism and it being easier to moan about them and do nothing to install more. BTW, the most effective mechanism for solar capture is agriculture - something this country still manages so there must be some sun around.

If renewable energy was as effective as people may lead u to believe then why was it s short while ago was the government talking about building more nuclear power stations

So they have a reason to tax electric cars? (Nuclear decommissioning aint cheap - dismantling a wind turbine, child's play).
 
''Not enough of them''? Correct - a mixture of NIMBYism and it being easier to moan about them and do nothing to install more. BTW, the most effective mechanism for solar capture is agriculture - something this country still manages so there must be some sun around.



So they have a reason to tax electric cars? (Nuclear decommissioning aint cheap - dismantling a wind turbine, child's play).

I'm all for renewable energy, and quite a supporter of both of those. That said, I think the issue may be around energy storage rather than collection. May be wrong here.

That's not to say that there isn't place for them, I just think we need to also be looking at tidal & wave powered sources, not just those two.

M.
 
I'm all for renewable energy, and quite a supporter of both of those. That said, I think the issue may be around energy storage rather than collection. May be wrong here.

That's not to say that there isn't place for them, I just think we need to also be looking at tidal & wave powered sources, not just those two.

Look at the numbers.

The actual energy generated by tidal barrages is often quoted as peak (eg. 8GW for the proposed Severn barrage) but the small print tells you it's rather less (2GW *average* - which means it drops below 2GW more than it rises above it).

So you need to think about more than the Severn.

If we all start using electric cars then overnight demands will go up massively. So the problem potentially gets worse.

So that's a collection problem.

That sort of collection variability means you solve the storage or contingency problem - or ....... ration consumption - either by rationing or by pricing.

Meanwhile as the population of the southern UK rises .... one might assume the demands for power ar going to rise proportionately. It's worth noting that UK peak consumption is the evening and not daytime. That infers domestic per-capita consumption that dominates demand and that's increasing - not industry.

But nobody seems to care - renewables are just so wonderful - as are plug-in electric cars - somehow this will all solve itself if we do absolutely FA. :rolleyes:
 
I'm all for renewable energy, and quite a supporter of both of those. That said, I think the issue may be around energy storage rather than collection. May be wrong here.

If it were really addressed the electric car could become the storage capacity for the grid. Technically I don't think there is any obstacle - the will and commitment to make it happen?...

That's not to say that there isn't place for them, I just think we need to also be looking at tidal & wave powered sources, not just those two.

M.

Absolutely, tidal and wave power should be exploited. If we consider the current crop of turbines etc as a new technology then we have a lot of potential for development. As tidal/wave systems came on stream we could be choosier as to where we install wind turbines - out at sea being the obvious place for them.
I don't doubt that this country has the ability to make all the above happen and thus have an exportable industry. More likely we won't, but end up buying in someone else's systems.
 

'will consider whether a national network of low emission zones could be included as part of its Air Quality plans due to be submitted to the European Commission at the end of this year.'

So we have still got a long time to wait until any decision is made, let alone how and when to enforce it. Business as usual until then. :)
 
Probably just a way to price old cars off the road and make everyone buy a new one every 5 years, conveniently ignoring all the energy and resources required to build them and because it helps the economy (read multinational car companies). Over here in Spain anything over 25 years old gets tax free status and costs 100quid insurance and breakdown cover for a year and people seem to get the idea that just buying new stuff all the time isn´t the solution.

So here´s my motoring contribution to the environment and the economy: It might not have a catalyst and be 3.0 but it has already lasted 28 years without having to be scrapped pressed and rebuilt and landfilled 2 or 3 times, has never returned me less than 42mpg tank to tank despite broken thermostat and doing some city driving. On a mainly A road holiday got me 50mpg tank to tank, something I couldnt get close to with a new hire car econobox 1.0 Corsa in similar conditions. Helps the local economy by requiring repairs in local garages keeping them in business.
 

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They should also ban buses/trucks and trains that use diesel to make it fair, but then again nothing is!
 
....As tidal/wave systems came on stream we could be choosier as to where we install wind turbines - out at sea being the obvious place for them.

Not if Donald Trump , and all the other NIMBY-ists had anything to do with it .:D
 
Having just been to Germany, where the environmental permit system is almost ubiquitous, as I had my breakfast just now in Calais it appears the same approach is to be adopted in Paris, which has similar issues to London.

I very much doubt that diesel is going out any time soon, but older diesels that lack the necessary equipment to qualify for permits to be driven in cities will end up on the scrap heap sooner than later.

Meanwhile, as technology moves on constantly, I lease new cars. Let the manufacturer bear the technological and environmental risks, they're much better able to cope!
 
..... has never returned me less than 42mpg tank to tank despite broken thermostat and doing some city driving. On a mainly A road holiday got me 50mpg tank to tank, something I couldnt get close to with a new hire car econobox 1.0 Corsa in similar conditions.

Those are astonishing figures for a W124 300E. Love the simplicity and robustness of the M103 6 cylinder engines and have had 2 of them while they were current but never got anywhere near those figures. About mid 20's around town & just nudging 40 on a run were the best.

Are you running on LPG?
 
Those are astonishing figures for a W124 300E. Love the simplicity and robustness of the M103 6 cylinder engines and have had 2 of them while they were current but never got anywhere near those figures. About mid 20's around town & just nudging 40 on a run were the best.

Are you running on LPG?

Think his car is a 3 litre diesel. OM603 or OM606
 
Those are astonishing figures for a W124 300E. Love the simplicity and robustness of the M103 6 cylinder engines and have had 2 of them while they were current but never got anywhere near those figures. About mid 20's around town & just nudging 40 on a run were the best.

Are you running on LPG?

It´s the OM603 diesel manual without catalyst, turbo, airbags or anything. I think it might be the manual suits my driving style and although its got no power it has torque so can be run around town always under 1500rpm. I´m still surprised at the economy though and reckon 55mpg must be doable if i was only on a roads and driving very lightly. My last W124 e220 petrol auto estate was 10 years younger and never really got past 40mpg and 33mpg was more common. I still thought these were good figures for an old petrol 7 seater estate auto, and that car (unlike this one) cost me about 200 quid a year in repairs.
 

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