Good Car / Bad Car

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Dryce

Hardcore MB Enthusiast
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
10,911
Car
..
I get to drive a hire car about every second week.

Always automatic.

Over the last year:

Mercedes A180d ..... most common drive because I ask for them if available - excellent at what it does but a bit bland - 7speed auto not perfect when moving off- I'd happily have one as a company pool car​
Renault Capture 1.5dci .... good - nothing fancy - nothing wrong for the money - good engine.​
BMW 320i .... soulless despite the badge but somehow excellent - I could happily own one​
Mercedes E220 .... very good .... I could happily own one.​
BMW 320d .... old model - less soulless than the new one - still good​
Mercedes C220 .... good .... but not quite as good as the 320d or 320i​
Jaguar XE - surprsingly good - maybe better than the C Class - but I'm biased to MB - rides well over low speed bumps​
Skoda Octavia 1.5 petrol something or other - impressive all rounder - not exciting - but very 'ownable' from a practical point of view​
Mitsibushi Outlander ..... olde worlde .... comfortable but no thankyou​
Renault Koleos ..... forgettable but inoffensive​
Vauxhall Mokka - not terrible. I wouldn't want one to own but I can see why some people like them.​
Juke - CVT drvetrain is shameful example of the tech - but surprisingly room for those up front - gloomy at the back - rotten economy - needs to be thrashed to climb hills.​
Lexus NX300h ..... waste of money - poor economy - stupid nose overhang - small boot - has no purpose - can't see why anybody with a brain would buy one​
Most cars are pretty good these days. The Lexus is the only one that really irks me - not because it wasn't well appointed but because as a package it is not eco anything despite the low CO2 numbers. And it has a strange drive train. Doesn't brake nicely (feedback). Doesn't accelerate nicely (I thought there was a broken vehicle somewhere nearby making that strange noise). If anybody here has one then sorry - but I think it's just about the most stupid car on the market because the money it costs can be put to so much better use on other manufacturers' offerings.

The A180d is a real star IMO. I really really didn't want to like it. But I've done well over 10000 miles in them and the only real complaint has been the transmission which on about 1 in 3 cars snatches and scrabbles when moving off on a wet surface (I noted that on some the tyres had been replaced). But on the move and getting about on A roads, B roads, and motorway it's comfortable and economical (decent range).

I really would like to hate the 320i because it's a BMW but if I was buying a car tomorrow and was after a saloon then I would have a very hard think about it. If the choice was a 320i vs a C Class then the BMW would get my money I'm afraid.
 
If my memory serves me correct, the first two cars on your list share a lot of components, the engine being one...
 
If my memory serves me correct, the first two cars on your list share a lot of components, the engine being one...

The Captur doesn't have the turbo.

I've been qute impressed with the A180d. It feels brisker on the move than the 0-60 time would suggest. I think sometimes you can get a car that isn't particularly great in any one area when you look at it on paper but is a good competent package on the road.
 
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I used to drive a lot of hire cars when I travelled a lot in my last job. Had some nice surprises along the way and few real stinkers as well. I never used to ask for anything in particular, I normally booked a small car as I mostly travelled on my own and just took what I was given. Made it interesting!

Cheers,

Gaz
 
I've been qute impressed with the A180d.
I doubt you’d find one as a rental, but if you get the chance it’s worth trying out an A220 or A250 petrol. Proper multi-link rear suspension improves the ride on rougher roads, and the gearbox doesn’t seem to suffer the lags or glitches pulling away that marr the A180d. I know I voted with my wallet and bought one, but it really is an impressively packaged and refined medium size car.
 
Agree with the A Class and the Joke.

I've had a few modern A Class whilst my car was in for warranty work.

They do do everything very well, there is enough room for me up front and it's quite comfortable actually - but boring as hell.

The Joke CVT is a shocker but the car itself is surprisingly comfortable for me and considering I usually don't fit in most things height-wise, it's surprisingly comfortable and I've even driven one for 5 hours twice in one day.

It's not fast but it does quite well for a 1.6 NA petrol.

You do need to do a bit of planning for some manoeuvres though.

I actually find a Citroen C1 to be not too bad either (maybe a 2014 vintage era).
 
The Joke CVT is a shocker but the car itself is surprisingly comfortable for me and considering I usually don't fit in most things height-wise, it's surprisingly comfortable and I've even driven one for 5 hours twice in one day.

It's not fast but it does quite well for a 1.6 NA petrol.

I've had the Juke automatic three times. Nicely equipped. Not a bad place to sit up front either. In that sense surprising. Slightly odd two level boot. The shape of the front with the ridges on each side makes it easy to judge manoeuvres.

But. I've had CVTs in the past that work well - but Juke setup is incredibly poor and spoils the car. First time I had one my passenger and I thought there was something wrong with it. I reported it as faulty to the rental company when I returned it and they said that they'd get it checked. But the next one was just the same. And the one after that. That's just the way they are.
 
Nice review. I’ve not driven a 3-series for several years now, but always thought they were a strong offering and would happily own a 320d Touring. However, I prefer the C250d estate that we already have.
 
I've had the Juke automatic three times. Nicely equipped. Not a bad place to sit up front either. In that sense surprising. Slightly odd two level boot. The shape of the front with the ridges on each side makes it easy to judge manoeuvres.

But. I've had CVTs in the past that work well - but Juke setup is incredibly poor and spoils the car. First time I had one my passenger and I thought there was something wrong with it. I reported it as faulty to the rental company when I returned it and they said that they'd get it checked. But the next one was just the same. And the one after that. That's just the way they are.

Yeah, the kit level is good actually and it's not badly put together (a touch-crappy perhaps).

The two-level boot is annoying when we have used it on holiday to the south west.

We need some of the bits in there but that first layer uses up a lot of room and we end up using the rear seats.

Don't use the car for holidays anymore - just local stuff so not an issue but it does do well overall.

Our previous Honda Jazz also had a poor drivetrain and was CVT.

Won't get another CVT!

You can improve things a little if you press the little button on the left side of the gear stick and put the car in "Sport" I think it is (one of the driving modes).

It's not too bad then but still hard work.
 
Worst (new) cars I have even driven?

1. SEAT van, essentially a Fiat Fiorino made under license in Spain, which I test drove with a work colleague back in the late 1980s, and which we both felt like dumping at the roadside halfway through the test drive and hail a taxi home (but we didn't, we drove it back to the dealer). Horrid little thing (the car, not the dealer).

2. Kia Shuma 1.6L automatic, rental, with delivery miles, back in 1999. Kia have gone a long way since, my 2010 Kia Soul II was a loverly car.

But in the past 20 years I have not been deeply disappointed with any (new) car that I drove, though obviously some were better than others. So either the car industry got better, or I became more complacent as I grew older (or both).
 
I should also add that I had an extended test drive in a Tesla Model X two years ago, I did not like it at all, but it would probably be unfair to classify it in the 'Worst car' category.
 
Mercedes A180d ..... most common drive because I ask for them if available - excellent at what it does but a bit bland - 7speed auto not perfect when moving off


Why do you think dual clutch boxes are becoming so popular when the smoothness of moving off is so often a weakness compared with a torque converter auto. Are there any DCT's that work really well.
 
Why do you think dual clutch boxes are becoming so popular when the smoothness of moving off is so often a weakness compared with a torque converter auto. Are there any DCT's that work really well.

BMW are moving away from DCT in their cars - current M5 now uses a ZF auto with torque converter as they have come so far.

I'm also assuming manufacturers will move away from improving them if electric cars are not going to use transmissions at all.
 
I get to drive a hire car about every second week.

Always automatic.

Over the last year:

Mercedes A180d ..... most common drive because I ask for them if available - excellent at what it does but a bit bland - 7speed auto not perfect when moving off- I'd happily have one as a company pool car​
Renault Capture 1.5dci .... good - nothing fancy - nothing wrong for the money - good engine.​
BMW 320i .... soulless despite the badge but somehow excellent - I could happily own one​
Mercedes E220 .... very good .... I could happily own one.​
BMW 320d .... old model - less soulless than the new one - still good​
Mercedes C220 .... good .... but not quite as good as the 320d or 320i​
Jaguar XE - surprsingly good - maybe better than the C Class - but I'm biased to MB - rides well over low speed bumps​
Skoda Octavia 1.5 petrol something or other - impressive all rounder - not exciting - but very 'ownable' from a practical point of view​
Mitsibushi Outlander ..... olde worlde .... comfortable but no thankyou​
Renault Koleos ..... forgettable but inoffensive​
Vauxhall Mokka - not terrible. I wouldn't want one to own but I can see why some people like them.​
Juke - CVT drvetrain is shameful example of the tech - but surprisingly room for those up front - gloomy at the back - rotten economy - needs to be thrashed to climb hills.​
Lexus NX300h ..... waste of money - poor economy - stupid nose overhang - small boot - has no purpose - can't see why anybody with a brain would buy one​
Most cars are pretty good these days. The Lexus is the only one that really irks me - not because it wasn't well appointed but because as a package it is not eco anything despite the low CO2 numbers. And it has a strange drive train. Doesn't brake nicely (feedback). Doesn't accelerate nicely (I thought there was a broken vehicle somewhere nearby making that strange noise). If anybody here has one then sorry - but I think it's just about the most stupid car on the market because the money it costs can be put to so much better use on other manufacturers' offerings.

The A180d is a real star IMO. I really really didn't want to like it. But I've done well over 10000 miles in them and the only real complaint has been the transmission which on about 1 in 3 cars snatches and scrabbles when moving off on a wet surface (I noted that on some the tyres had been replaced). But on the move and getting about on A roads, B roads, and motorway it's comfortable and economical (decent range).

I really would like to hate the 320i because it's a BMW but if I was buying a car tomorrow and was after a saloon then I would have a very hard think about it. If the choice was a 320i vs a C Class then the BMW would get my money I'm afraid.

I love your enthusiasm and ability to see the positives in them. Except perhaps the Lexus. I feel slightly sad that after more than thirty years in the motor trade, all that I really notice now are the faults.
 
Oh yes... and agree on the NX.

I did test-drive one coming up to a couple of years ago and apart from the panoramic roof, which I actually quite liked, in every other respect it was utter shyte!
 
I love your enthusiasm and ability to see the positives in them. Except perhaps the Lexus. I feel slightly sad that after more than thirty years in the motor trade, all that I really notice now are the faults.

I'm impressed by the improvements in small/family automatics over the last 12 to 15 years.
 
the Juke 2020 for sure has the worst auto gearbox around, and i drive a lot of different cars every day.
it's a lot worse than the previous juke.
completely joke of gearbox..
 
I took have hire cars for going to the Heathrow and Gatwick. I’ve generally had the Nissan X-trail and the Vauxhall Grandland, both I never really liked at all. However the insignia petrol turbo was very comfortable and the boot was massive, easily enough to take 3 girls luggage. The best however was the Volvo V60. What a car and it made an impression on me. We talked about getting rid of my husbands 318d tourer for it, it was that good. He brought a Range Rover sport in the end.
 
BMW are moving away from DCT in their cars - current M5 now uses a ZF auto with torque converter as they have come so far.

I'm also assuming manufacturers will move away from improving them if electric cars are not going to use transmissions at all.

It's interesting why BMW has dropped the DCT in favour of a torque converter, especially in its M cars. Certainly modern torque converters are much improved but I doubt BMW believes the torque converter is better suited to its performance cars. BMW's DCT works brilliantly (except for low speed manoeuvring) but its complexity makes it a potential weak link in the powertrain with engines producing 500-600 hp in modern M cars. I'd guess that using a more robust torque converter is a financial decision.
 
Interesting topic, I find most new cars bar a few are all very nice to drive and there is little between them.
But ownership of a car these days is a bit of a gamble as to running / repair costs and frequency of repairs/problems.
Some cars are put together so badly underneath all the shiny bits and the quality of components is shocking. They are ticking time bombs for repairs. Some are not so bad of course, I do feel that the "Quality German engineering" is wearing a bit thin these days and perhaps should be "German cost cutting engineer!" lol

If you lease, PCP etc then its really not an issue, but a lot, me included have to buy these cars out of warranty and this becomes a major worry as to what repair costs, problems , inconvenience that lurks ahead.
 

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