Good Car / Bad Car

[Dryce]

If you lease, PCP etc then its really not an issue, but a lot, me included have to buy these cars out of warranty and this becomes a major worry as to what repair costs, problems , inconvenience that lurks ahead.

Depreciation has been a shocker in the UK market - so to be fair this uncertainty is built into the pricing.

An often overlooked downside of buying on lease/PCP is that you also tend to get hit with dealer servicing costs. MB in particular have conditioned its customers to thibnk £30/month for the first three years of the car's life is good value.

 

[Dryce]

It's interesting why BMW has dropped the DCT in favour of a torque converter, especially in its M cars.

The ZF 8 speed box is used my MB in the E63. I believe it's the version with the clutch pack which I assume is to facilitate launch control.

IMO the ZF 8 speed box is still the best auto transmission - and opinions on the DCT haven't always been positive.

If I was advising somebody on cars and they were looking at a car with a DSG/DCT style box vs on with a ZF 8 then all other things being reasonably equal I'd steer then to the ZF box.

 

[John]

It's interesting why BMW has dropped the DCT in favour of a torque converter, especially in its M cars. Certainly modern torque converters are much improved but I doubt BMW believes the torque converter is better suited to its performance cars. BMW's DCT works brilliantly (except for low speed manoeuvring) but its complexity makes it a potential weak link in the powertrain with engines producing 500-600 hp in modern M cars. I'd guess that using a more robust torque converter is a financial decision.

Yes, there is that too actually. A strong slushy will handle the grief all day long.

I'd rather a ZF and had I gone for a Maserati GT, that's the box I'd have gone for there too.

I'm sure DCT (although single clutch automated in the GT) and the like are great to drive through the gears but slow manoeuvring and running costs are not so great.

It's fine if you only keep the car a short while but I prefer to keep cars longer.

I've always preferred slushies for my style of driving and the other benefits they offer anyway.

The ZF 8 speed box is used my MB in the E63. I believe it's the version with the clutch pack which I assume is to facilitate launch control.

IMO the ZF 8 speed box is still the best auto transmission - and opinions on the DCT haven't always been positive.

MB gearboxes are 7 speed and 9 speed and made by Daimler.

The MCT gearboxes in modern AMGs do have a multi-clutch pack albeit uses a wet "startup" clutch.

 

[Dryce]

MB gearboxes are 7 speed and 9 speed and made by Daimler.

The MCT gearboxes in modern AMGs do have a multi-clutch pack albeit uses a wet "startup" clutch.

I stand corrected. Somehow I have managed a very specific recollection of the ZF 8 speed being used in the E63. I'll have some problem unwinding it.

 

[John]

I stand corrected. Somehow I have managed a very specific recollection of the ZF 8 speed being used in the E63. I'll have some problem unwinding it.

It's used in everything else though...

 

[Dryce]

It's used in everything else though...

I'm wondering if it is the clutch pack that came from ZF.

 

[John]

I'm wondering if it is the clutch pack that came from ZF.

Apparently so, if the article below is true!

Makes sense not to re-invent the wheel I guess - particularly if MB were forward thinking about gearboxes being dropped in electric cars.

"The multi-plate clutch pack was supplied by ZF."

AutoZine Technical School

 

[Andye63s]

I had a 2017 bmw 335d with the zf gearbox. Hands down the most boring car Iver ever owner, but at the same time couldn’t fault it.

I had a fair few issues with the ZF gearbox especially on cold days it would feel like slipping clutches and get no drive. It had only done 12k when I got out of it butthe next owner will have a dog on their hands

 

[John]

I had a 2017 bmw 335d with the zf gearbox. Hands down the most boring car Iver ever owner, but at the same time couldn’t fault it.

I had a fair few issues with the ZF gearbox especially on cold days it would feel like slipping clutches and get no drive. It had only done 12k when I got out of it butthe next owner will have a dog on their hands

I've read a fair few anecdotal stories of issues with them.

But then again, there are quite a lot of them out there!

 

[Deleted member 11979]

I've read a fair few anecdotal stories of issues with them.

But then again, there are quite a lot of them out there!

I have a 535d with the zf box, it’s done 120k now with a gearbox oil change at 80k miles, it’s the best drive train I’ve had in any car, and I understand the box is pretty robust, that being said, you get duffers on any product.

It’s interesting to see how many people think the BMWs are dull but worthy, I marvel at the engineering excellence in mine, it’s so unbelievably capable, I have huge respect for it, but exciting? Not really

 

[Andye63s]

I have a 535d with the zf box, it’s done 120k now with a gearbox oil change at 80k miles, it’s the best drive train I’ve had in any car, and I understand the box is pretty robust, that being said, you get duffers on any product.

It’s interesting to see how many people think the BMWs are dull but worthy, I marvel at the engineering excellence in mine, it’s so unbelievably capable, I have huge respect for it, but exciting? Not really

mine was the xdrive which i think dulled the enjoyment, however i know what you mean, great car, but not exciting. write down on paper why you dont like it and its emotion rather than technical ability. the engine is a stormer and does it with so little fuss and slug of torque its quite remarkable.

 

[Dryce]

It’s interesting to see how many people think the BMWs are dull but worthy, I marvel at the engineering excellence in mine, it’s so unbelievably capable, I have huge respect for it, but exciting? Not really

I think my expectation of the brand was based on reputation. Our first BMW that I spent a lot of time with was an early E89 Z4 sDrive 23i. The drive train with a ZF 6 speed was outstanding. But ... the steering always reminded me of a Honda Jazz - bland - though it felt better when pushed.

My feeling about the current 320i is that it is an incredibly competent car - I used the term soulless - that or the term dull are maybe a bit strong. But the hype is that these are "driver's cars". Look at pistonheads and the BMW forum gets disproportionately more posts. I think he myth is stronger than the reality. The trick with a modern BMW is that it is an "owner's car" and a lot of the owners pick the brand based on its supposed dynamic and tactile attributes rather than actual attributes. But as an "owner's car" the 320i (or 320d) are really well developed as a package.

 

[John]

My last BMW was a 2001 Alpina and I had an E36 M3 Evo prior to that so I've not really had much experience of the brand in the last 20 years.

I drove a 640d on a 15 plate I think with a view to buying a 650i but I was comparing it against a modified E55K so hardly going to set the world on fire.

It did the job well though and I'm sure the 6 is probably a great car in it's own right but I would have needed the M6 for any excitement but was a car I wanted to avoid.

My perception of BMWs in general though is not dull and worthy but then again that's built on late 90s / early 00s cars.