Great Britain derailed again

[nick mercedes]

So I read the above as GB not having much in the way of manufacturing, but instead tries to compete in commodity steel production. And to my lay experience, that seems totally back to front.

Much of the steel produced here would have been used in this country, all those steel frame skyscrapers being build on former employment land in London for wealthy Chinese and Russian criminals for example.

One bonus is now that scrap is £20odd a tonne and falling, manhole covers and roadsigns are a bit safer from being stolen.

 

[Deleted96908]

Much of the steel produced here would have been used in this country, all those steel frame skyscrapers being build on former employment land in London for wealthy Chinese and Russian criminals for example.

I don't know anything about the industry, but shouldn't we be producing speciality steels here and leave the cheap stuff to areas with low labour costs?

 

[nick mercedes]

I don't know anything about the industry, but shouldn't we be producing speciality steels here and leave the cheap stuff to areas with low labour costs?

We build a lot of cars here, and put up a lot of buildings.

We need steel, and lots of it.

What happens when we import everything?

 

[Deleted96908]

I don't advocate importing anything, take the time to read some of the rest of this thread.

But facts is what facts are. Until we can compete without massive subsidies, market conditions prevail. This is a 50 year old problem in the making, not something that's reared its head these past few years.

We build a lot of cars here, and put up a lot of buildings.

Wrt cars, we may assemble them, but most companies doing so here are owned overseas and consequently have zero interest in buying British unless it's cost effective to do so. Unless of course, the owners are looking for a British peerage.

 

[nick mercedes]

In 10 days since the last post, 2 steel works in Scotland are closing (including the only one that makes armour plating, 16 Caparo steel businesses have gone belly up, and Scunthorpe, the UKs biggest steel works is starting to close down.

What now for a strategic industry?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

What now for a strategic industry?

Great start to the "Northern Powerhouse" Gideon has been banging on about.

 

[flango]

What now for a strategic industry?

In my experience "strategic" in the UK usually means outdated and unprofitable, never has a word been so mis-used

 

[Deleted96908]

Great start to the "Northern Powerhouse" Gideon has been banging on about.

He was referring to a new sub station on the Northern Line.

 

[Deleted96908]

In 10 days since the last post, 2 steel works in Scotland are closing (including the only one that makes armour plating, 16 Caparo steel businesses have gone belly up, and Scunthorpe, the UKs biggest steel works is starting to close down.

What now for a strategic industry?

I've found myself pondering what'd it be like to be a Chinese enclave for 100 years or so.

 

[WDB124066]

Go live in China for 6 months, wondering over - in fact I don't think you should qualify to vote until you have lived in the third world for at least 6 months. Sick and tired of Governments that have been voted in by non qualified voters.

 

[Deleted96908]

Go live in China for 6 months, wondering over - in fact I don't think you should qualify to vote until you have lived in the third world for at least 6 months. Sick and tired of Governments that have been voted in by non qualified voters.

Third world being?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Third world being?

The ones that didn't finish second?

 

[Deleted96908]

The ones that didn't finish second?

in the human race?

 

[Bellow]

A (genuine) question. Do we require a functioning domestic steel industry for armament production (in the event of war)?

 

[flango]

A (genuine) question. Do we require a functioning domestic steel industry for armament production (in the event of war)?

Good question as we are already home of the worlds largest arms company ( BAE Systems) and UK is No2 in the world in arms exports.

So where does BAE source its steel?

 

[Dryce]

A (genuine) question. Do we require a functioning domestic steel industry for armament production (in the event of war)?

Yes.

But arguably we've let so much else go over the last 20 years then even if you have the steel to make nasty things you don't have the capability to do a whole load of other stuff.

Strategically what you want is ongoing core programs. So you don't build things like tanks or ships or submarines in batches with long delays between batches - you have ongoing programmes that keep skills, knowledge, and industry active.

 

[Dryce]

Good question as we are already home of the worlds largest arms company ( BAE Systems) and UK is No2 in the world in arms exports.

Bear in mind that BAE in the US operates as if it's an independent US company.

BAE also manufacture stuff abroad.

So they might make a piece of kit where some of the specialised bits are made in the UK but the heavy parts are made elsewhere and then the whole thing is finished off in another country.

So while BAE might look like a strategic British company it's a multinational that just happens to have a 'B' at the start of its name - and it's hardly ever refered to as anything but 'BAE' with the actual word that starts with B forgotten with no sign of a Union Flag or British colours in the Logo.

 

[Deleted96908]

A (genuine) question. Do we require a functioning domestic steel industry for armament production (in the event of war)?

I believe we are incapable of any serious military action beyond aerial bombardment of ill-equipped ground forces. We were stretched in '82 and the thought of us engaging in any serious effort is long gone and a long way off. A view echoed by many a military commander these past few years. So in my view, steel production or not, we won't be waging war anytime soon.

But if we did find ourselves having to defend the British Isles then we'd need access to composites, aluminium, rare earths, and oil - alongside steel. We'd also need to secure communications and access to various forms of liquidity. Dollars, Swiss Francs? Yuan, and of course gold - that latter being a real problem since the Brown sell off.

So I think Steel is a red herring in that we could stock pile it, same for the other raw materials stated above. And perhaps we have. The bigger question is whether, even with all our might, we could mount a serious defence against any country large enough to attack us. I think not. I suppose the US could mount a defence of the UK from a carrier born force in the Atlantic. Or maybe other non US Nato countries could come to our aid - but given we are, other than the US, the most capable and proactive force in Nato, it'd be a bit like relying on your kid brother to sort out the school bully.

 

[grober]

If I was to offer the scenario that the main economic purpose of cuddling closer to the Chinese economic block is merely preparatory to our pending exit from the EU would that be too far fetched? Beijing or Brussels?

 

[Deleted96908]

If I was to offer the scenario that the main economic purpose of cuddling closer to the Chinese economic block is merely preparatory to our pending exit from the EU would that be too far fetched? Beijing or Brussels?

I don't think that's too far fetched at all and with realpolitik in mind is why I posted this earlier in the thread:

I've found myself pondering what'd it be like to be a Chinese enclave for 100 years or so.