Greece; Is this the beginning of the end for the Euro?

[finisterre]

Grandstanding took place on both sides.

The miners strike was a disaster. I suspect it would have taken both Scargill and Thatcher enormous effort to find a consensus between the entrenched and oppositional mindsets of their organisations and neither was willing. In the short run it was the northern communities that paid the higher price but over the next few hundred years the probably unaffordable additional cost of extracting the coal beneath our feet will be regretted by all.

Anyway I am well off topic here. sorry.

 

[Scott_F]

The miners and unions were using their power of strike to hold UK companies and power generators to ransom, so they could be paid high wages.

The Government wanted to dismantle coal mining industry so that the electricity generation industry would be more appealing to private sector companies when it was privatised.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Without wishing to get confrontational, you will see that I never wrote anything like that. They are your words, not mine.

As it happens, many miners did disagree with what Scargill was trying to do, but you saw what happened to them.

I also think that you are far too close to the subject to ever view it objectively.

Anyway, I'm not trying to start an argument, so I'll leave it at that.

Sorry Keith, I think you're correct in that maybe I am too close to view this objectively.
It's just that I struggle to hold my tongue when popular misconceptions are bandied about.

 

[Dieselman]

The Government wanted to dismantle coal mining industry so that the electricity generation industry would be more appealing to private sector companies when it was privatised.

How does that work? They still have to buy coal for the stations...or do you mean they would be free to buy it competitively on the open market instead of being held to ransom by striking miners?

 

[Scott_F]

How does that work? They still have to buy coal for the stations.

Pre-privatisation they were tied into contracts to buy coal from the NCB.
Once the domestic coal industry dismantled they could buy cheaper coal from abroad. Great for profit-making but not so great for the 220,000 UK miners who lost their jobs.

 

[finisterre]

I am too close to view this objectively.

My dad's family worked down Rossington Pit. Is that close? I lived in Sheffield during the strike. I am sorry if I am pushing any misconceptions. I would be more than happy, interested even, to chat, compare and contrast etc about how we experienced the strike on this or another thread.

But it is a bit off topic.

 

[Dieselman]

Pre-privatisation they were tied into contracts to buy coal from the NCB.
Once the domestic coal industry dismantled they could buy cheaper coal from abroad. Great for profit-making but not so great for the 220,000 UK miners who lost their jobs.

Unfortunately the reality of National and Commercial security comes before a set number of individuals.

That's life.

 

[Scott_F]

Unfortunately the reality of National and Commercial security comes before a set number of individuals.

That's life.

How does national and commercial security relate to a small number of energy providers who buy the cheapest coal that they can from unethical sources and collude to stifle competition and fix prices in the face of an ineffectual market regulator ?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

My dad's family worked down Rossington Pit. Is that close? I lived in Sheffield during the strike. I am sorry if I am pushing any misconceptions. I would be more than happy, interested even, to chat, compare and contrast etc about how we experienced the strike on this or another thread.

But it is a bit off topic.

Three members of my family were miners, along with my father in law and a few others on my wifes side of the family. So yes, you could say I can't be objectional enough. But I'll admit it.

If you saw the state of Rossington now, as opposed to when your Dad worked at the pit, it is soul-destroying. The same can be said for all of those mining villages that are now cast adrift.
The supposed 'boom' of the last decade didn't really reach these parts that much I'm afraid.

 

[Dieselman]

How does national and commercial security relate to a small number of energy providers who buy the cheapest coal that they can from unethical sources and collude to stifle competition and fix prices in the face of an ineffectual market regulator ?

Simple. When the Miners went on strike the generators couldn't produce electricity.

That is a REAL security and Commercial problem for a nation and shouldn't be allowed to happen, especially as miners were well paid anyway.

 

[Scott_F]

Three members of my family were miners, along with my father in law and a few others on my wifes side of the family. So yes, you could say I can't be objectional enough. But I'll admit it.

If you saw the state of Rossington now, as opposed to when your Dad worked at the pit, it is soul-destroying. The same can be said for all of those mining villages that are now cast adrift.
The supposed 'boom' of the last decade didn't really reach these parts that much I'm afraid.

But that's "national and commercial security" for you.

Apparently.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

especially as miners were well paid anyway.

How much did a miner earn for a week on the coal face?

 

[Scott_F]

Simple. When the Miners went on strike the generators couldn't produce electricity.

That is a REAL security and Commercial problem for a nation and shouldn't be allowed to happen, especially as miners were well paid anyway.

The single largest supplier of coal to UK power stations is now Russia so there's a real "national and commercial security" issue for you.

 

[Dryce]

The overwhelming fact that we have virtually no manufacturing or mining industries anymore is not down to Scargill. On the contrary, he predicted all of this would happen.

Not a very valid prediction when the writing is all over the wall and had been for years.

In the case of the miners' strike Scargill and his team were actively trying to solicit a strike and the means by which they chose to organise the vote was designed to get it through inertia.

Whatever the underlying rights and wrongs of the whole situation the leadership of the union wasn't just motivated to act on behalf of its members but also to a political agenda.

 

[Dryce]

How much did a miner earn for a week on the coal face?

I don't remember the figures any more but it was well paid by contemporary standards. There were good productivity bonuses on top.

Which made things all the more painful for the men and their families during the strike.

 

[Dryce]

The miners and unions were using their power of strike to hold UK companies and power generators to ransom, so they could be paid high wages.

I always think of that as a derivative of market capitalism. Just the unions don't recognise it as such ......

 

[finisterre]

I was working at Butlins before the strike and the miners were rich. I remember a miners wife not bothering to chase a £20 note that she dropped while getting ice-creams for her kids. I was being paid about 40-50 pounds a week. I served her and temporarily shut up the kiosk but failed to find it.

 

[Dryce]

And the disinformation being pushed by various media is bugging me. For example todays Torygraph - said that a teacher serving for 37 years with a final salary of £32,000 would receive a pension of £23,000. If you stick those values through the official TPS teachers pension calculator they would actually get £14,800. This sort of dishonesty is disheartening.

As always numbers don't tell the full story. And journalists get confused.

Teachers used to get 1/80 final salary for each year.

Now they get 1/60 of each year's salary.

And then there are lump sum options.

So they presumably the journos plugged in the number using the 1/60 calculation. To do that properly you'd have to make some projection of salary changes over a career.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I was working at Butlins before the strike and the miners were rich. I remember a miners wife not bothering to chase a £20 note that she dropped while getting ice-creams for her kids. I was being paid about 40-50 pounds a week. I served her and temporarily shut up the kiosk but failed to find it.

How did you know she was a miners wife? Was she wearing a donkey jacket?
I've just spoke to my Father in law and in the mid-80s he earned roughly £140 a week including any bonuses.

 

[Dieselman]

How did you know she was a miners wife? Was she wearing a donkey jacket?
I've just spoke to my Father in law and in the mid-80s he earned roughly £140 a week including any bonuses.

The hob nails on the dance floor were probably more of a giveaway...



£140 per week was good money for manual work back then, especially outside London.