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recycled

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I just heard that the council in brighton want to introduce laws making it harder to pave your front garden and turn it into a driveway.They claim it is not green and not friendly to the environment as it causes flooding and water has nowhere to go.
While this makes sense , it is hard to see reason when thousands of greenbelt areas are being sold to developers in the north west to build giant supermarkets and new estates and parks are being converted to new developments.

Oh i also forgot to mention that people started doing this since the council started turning all the roads in front of the individuals houses concerned into paid parking.
I guess it is hard to just say pay up we need the money.
Soon they will need planning permission to pave over their garden, or pay to park in front of their house.
 
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So much for a free country. It's your land.... you should be able to pave it.
 
Presumably they are convinced that the paving of gardens is increasing surface run-off -- and therefore flooding -- to an unmanageable degree. Extensively paved urban areas need all the help they can get from absorbent local ground surfaces to intercept water and delay its passage through to drains, water courses and the water table. If you want more flooding, pave your garden.

I kept my front lawn intact for these very reasons and rented a local-authority lock-up garage to accommodate an extra car.
 
well i think paving entire acres of parks for new housing and developments will cause much worse flooding, but they do not seem to have a problem doing that.
In fact the wirral council have just sold the run off flood plain(which at present is a big lake) to a local developer to build houses on.
Now come the next floods there is no where for the water to run off to.
Not to think of the effect on those houses built on there and anyway the paid parking coincidence smells a rat
 
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So much for a free country. It's your land.... you should be able to pave it.

True, but by that basis we should therefore be able to develop old properties (i.e. modify listed buildings) and there would be no such thing as planning permission that could keep developers from building eyesores in fields etc.

I think however that paving your drive way is a step to far in this conservation etc, it won't make a huge difference to flood prevention etc. What would make a difference if drainage on roads were improved and that our sewage system could handle a greater volume of water.
 
well i think paving entire acres of parks for new housing and developments will cause much worse flooding, but they do not seem to have a problem doing that.
In fact the wirral council have just sold the run off flood plain(which at present is a big lake) to a local developer to build houses on.
Now come the next floods there is no where for the water to run off to.
Not to think of the effect on those houses built on there

But whats the likliehood that money switched overhands from the developer to the planning officer. You'd be amazed how often this goes on...
 
I think however that paving your drive way is a step to far in this conservation etc, it won't make a huge difference to flood prevention etc. What would make a difference if drainage on roads were improved and that our sewage system could handle a greater volume of water.
Plus when did you last see the "elephant man" (as my Father calls it, you know what I'm talking about!) sucking the leaves etc out of the drains? I used to see that truck once every few months a number of years ago but it seems to have vanished. With the drains full of leaves and rubbish it is no wonder flooding has worsened.
 
I do not know if it did (money switching over or are you saying it did?)
Anyway i do not know i just think that the council should be seen to lead the green way not do as i say instead of do as i do.
 
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Plus when did you last see the "elephant man" (as my Father calls it, you know what I'm talking about!) sucking the leaves etc out of the drains? I used to see that truck once every few months a number of years ago but it seems to have vanished. With the drains full of leaves and rubbish it is no wonder flooding has worsened.

I fully agree on this point. Also whens its raining cats & dogs, how many drains do you seen that seem to be overflowing, letting the water out rather than in. Also depending on what sort of ground you have at your house depends whether that grass will actually suck up water or be just as useful as concrete itself. :bannana:
 
I do not know if it did (money switching over or are you saying it did?)
Anyway i do not know i just think that the council should be seen to lead the green way not do as i say instead of do as i do.

Fair cop, better that than this, but I think a significant amount of green measures are a) a waste of time b) a waste of money c) uneccessary d) inconvienient to the public
 
In my street, the little bit of green that I have at the front, is the only grassy patch around which makes it a bit of a dumping ground (literally) for all the little poochies in the neighbourhood.

As soon as the weather picks up a little, a ton of gravel will be delivered and another square metre of green belt will be gone.
 
Storm water sewers can theoretically cope with the normal runoff from the road surface and the roofs of buildings but they may well be unable to cope with the extra burden of runoff from paved over gardens, even if they are in tip-top, well-maintained condition.

I sympathise with the locals who feel compelled to pave over their gardens but how much does this cost in comparison with a parking permit? Plus they need to have an official crossover constructed on the footway (I assume one exists) which is going to be at least £800.

*** - I don't class this as a green measure, it's one of managing the infrastructure in the face of extraordinary use, short of having to reconstruct the sewers, something the local sewerage company will be unlikely to fancy.

With every new sealed garden, a little more land is made impervious to water percolation therefore when it's all added together, the increase in runoff will be significant.

Shude - gulley cleaning (for that's what it is called ;)) is now done on a crisis management basis. My local highway authority has specified regular cleaning but the contractor waits for complaints or an event before acting - a sign of the times, I'm afraid.
 
well i think paving entire acres of parks for new housing and developments will cause much worse flooding, but they do not seem to have a problem doing that.
In fact the wirral council have just sold the run off flood plain(which at present is a big lake) to a local developer to build houses on.
Now come the next floods there is no where for the water to run off to.
Not to think of the effect on those houses built on there and anyway the paid parking coincidence smells a rat

In some areas (north Bristol is one that comes to mind) you will see that in a lot of larger developments there have nice attractive water features. These actually catch and retain run off water and gradually release it. Otherwise Bristol City Centre would drown every time it rained heavily. I would expect to see more of these type of feature on a smaller scale in the future.

David
 
This is another intrusion on freedom of choice. I read in Auto Express that my car tax will go up to around £400. The congestion charge up to £25. Insurance groups going up to 50 bands (you know what that means).
I am fed up with the constant bombardment of taxes and green measures we face.

This anti-flood measure is another attempt to restrict choice in this country. I wrote to Gordon Brown and asked if the 'ideal' way of life in this country, is to drive a souless hatchback and live in small eco-friendly boxes? That'll make Britain 'great'.
 
I'm normally anti-green, but I have to say I think this one makes sense. As long as it's looked at practically (ie we not going to say you can't pave it, just make sure that it's properly drained) I don't see the issue.

I would not want to be the cause of homes being flooded downstream. And while one person would not make a difference, collectively it would and this is what the planning system is there for.

Incidently I live in Doncaster and saw the effect of the floods in the summer, fortunately well away from where I live.

David
 
well i think paving entire acres of parks for new housing and developments will cause much worse flooding, but they do not seem to have a problem doing that.


There simply isn't any doubt that paving gardens increases the speed of run-off and increases the probability of flash flooding. You can deny it all you like but there is a wealth of data on the subject. With increasing storminess due to climate change (and there is a wealth of data on that too) the probability of flash flooding has been on the increase for the last 20 years, and continues increasing, so it is absolutely right that councils should clamp down on activities that are going to make it even worse.

Large new developments use special techniques to store the results of rapid run-off in storm tanks or balancing ponds fitted with flow restrictors and thereby release it into the drains at a slower speed the drains can cope with. They are expensive to construct but are a precondition for planning permission.

Obviously, that isn't an option for the householder who paves his garden. However, what you can do is use a system of porous paving such as Grasscrete. This gives you a firm surface to park your vehicle on, but is porous allowing the rain to soak into the ground where it is delayed on its way to the drains.

GRASSCRETE
 
Not been paying attention to the doings of our wonderful Government, have you?

The Code for Sustainable Homes was published by the Government last year to encourage low carbon and high environmental performance homes. There are 9 elements of the code that Local Government now has to consider for changes to existing and for new builds

Energy
Water
Materials
Surface water run-off
Waste
Pollution
Health and well-being
Management
Ecology

So that feed into all manner of related things and SUDS: Sustainable Urban Drainage Systems, which has become something of a fetish with those local authorities who have flooding or flash surface water problems

Grasscrete is an option but one of the very clearly accepted ways to deal with run-off is the use of Permeable Paving, I would suggest that by using suitable materials your can happily tell them to get lost and in their own terms:

"Permeable pavement systems (PPS) reduce storm water run-off and slow the discharge of water to sewers and water courses to prevent flooding. They are effective pollution control devices which can trap oil and other hydrocarbons which are often present in urban runoff, we have all seen oil patches in car parks as demonstatred by the picture below. They also retain heavy metals and allow for the sedimentation of silt within their structure. PPS will improve the quality of the rainwater as it passes through the system as it will trap these pollutants and the naturally occurring microbial community within PPS will act to degrade trapped oil. Compounds within oil can be very dangerous to fish and amphibians, which in turn affects animals that feed on them. When untreated urban stormwater is released directly to water courses, the pollutnts present in that water can have serious environmental consequences.

Permeable paving can have concrete or clay paving blocks as the surface layer, these have channels around the block allowing water to pass through the surface."
 
If Councils really don't want water run-off problems from paved gardens, they should stop introducing Controlled Parking Zones!

Simple, really!
 
If the council really wanted to stop people paving their gardens to turn them into parking areas and force them to park in the streets couldn't they just refuse planning permission to lower the kerbs??

I think all large paved areas - private or commercial ought to seek planning permission - but then only refused for true planning reasons - ..easily checked in the local area plans
 

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