Grumpy Old Man

[jeffwebb]

I'm typing this after a night out so if I offend anyone, as we say here, cojones.
I live between England and Spain. I am legal in both, own property and pay taxes as required. I am a respectable, middle aged (59), ex fireman, and am becoming a fascist, and I do not like it.
Last Christmas, I was coming back from Spain, to spend the Holidays in England. I was driving my Spanish registered A Class with hardly any wines or spirits, and I was treated like a Columbian drug smuggler whilst van loads of "swarthy types" were just poodling through the so called border.
Despite paying my licence fee, etc, etc, I cannot access BBC, ITV programs in Spain (without using a proxy server), despite being totally legal.
In Spain, there is a short period of benefit to enable you to find employment, and after that, nothing.
As I understand it, if you are going to claim asylum, you go to the first, safe country. So how do Afghans, Iraqis, etc, etc end up in England or is my geography worse than I thought.
Believe me, I am not a racist, bigot, or any sort of nasty b*stard, but, We have paid, all our working lives, for this system and it is breaking down. In Spain, if you haven't paid in, you don't get out. seems reasonable to me?
In England, you only have to be here to get, what our Grandparents/parents paid in years for.
Sorry for this but I am frightened for my kids/grandkids and wanted to vent.
Regards, Jeff (=

 

[d w124]

Jeff:That's not grumpy but I guess we'll have to live with it
I'm foreign and came here about 10 yrs ago,working legal and have not stopes since

 

[swannymere]

The people coming in are not the problem as the vast majority want to work, so why don't the government issue them with a national insurance number and let them work and tax them? I'd rather have the hard working foreigners that contribute than the indigenous population who seem to think they're owed a living and populate the country with poorly brought up chav's with the same attitude, kick them out regardless of the fact they were born here.

 

[jeffwebb]

Swanny got one in. so up 2.^
You know that you are not the source of my anger. I have friends here in Spain, Romanian, Russian, Serbian, and in England, from all over. It goes on. What angers me is people turning up in England, expecting to be supplied with everything they need without ever contributing to the pot. Does this make me a fascist??
Swanny, your sentiments are honourable and 100% correct but, spend a few days in London and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Scott_F]

.... kick them out regardless of the fact they were born here.

And where would you send them exactly ??

 

[d w124]

And where would you send them exactly ??

Don't know if I should laugh or cry at your reply's

 

[swannymere]

And where would you send them exactly ??

Isle of Wight.

 

[jeffwebb]

I had a feeling this might be contentious, but come on guys/gals, lets keep it it cool. Regards, Jeff

 

[Scott_F]

Don't know if I should laugh or cry at your reply's

Or replies

 

[d w124]

Or replies

Like this one for example,not funny at all

 

[Scott_F]

Like this one for example,not funny at all

Made me smile.

 

[jeffwebb]

I know this is naive but, in the old days , you would rise up and change the way your country operated, Now, you just up sticks, and go to England for benefits, housing and "human rights".

 

[Colin_b]

I know this is naive but, in the old days , you would rise up and change the way your country operated, Now, you just up sticks, and go to England for benefits, housing and "human rights".

As the Hugenots, Jews and other repressed people did over the centuries.

If someone is foolish enough to give money away, I find it hard to blame people for taking it.

Yes, society is somewhat broken, but we are all to blame, not just some.

 

[lancebond]

All I can say to this is

 

[jeffwebb]

I have no problem with "repressed" people, but, as I said earlier in this thread, if you're claiming asylum, you go to the first safe country. So, how (why) do we end up with asylum seekers in the UK?
Jeff.

 

[lancebond]

Surely it's oppressed people, not repressed people.

Anyhow, contentious subject liable to cause an argument on here... So please be careful with replies?

 

[jeffwebb]

I thought we were being very reserved. Do I smell leather patched cardigans??
How long have you been a MOD??

 

[jepho]

I'm typing this after a night out so if I offend anyone, as we say here, cojones.
I live between England and Spain. I am legal in both, own property and pay taxes as required. I am a respectable, middle aged (59), ex fireman, and am becoming a fascist, and I do not like it.
Last Christmas, I was coming back from Spain, to spend the Holidays in England. I was driving my Spanish registered A Class with hardly any wines or spirits, and I was treated like a Columbian drug smuggler whilst van loads of "swarthy types" were just poodling through the so called border.
Despite paying my licence fee, etc, etc, I cannot access BBC, ITV programs in Spain (without using a proxy server), despite being totally legal.
In Spain, there is a short period of benefit to enable you to find employment, and after that, nothing.
As I understand it, if you are going to claim asylum, you go to the first, safe country. So how do Afghans, Iraqis, etc, etc end up in England or is my geography worse than I thought.
Believe me, I am not a racist, bigot, or any sort of nasty b*stard, but, We have paid, all our working lives, for this system and it is breaking down. In Spain, if you haven't paid in, you don't get out. seems reasonable to me?
In England, you only have to be here to get, what our Grandparents/parents paid in years for.
Sorry for this but I am frightened for my kids/grandkids and wanted to vent.
Regards, Jeff (=

I find it difficult to know what you are trying to say or what you are venting about. Without knowing what regulations apply to asylum seekers in the various EU countries, or whether there are EU rules which decree that all countries of the EU may be deemed equally 'safe' for the purpose of resettling asylum seekers... it is hard to understand what you are railing against.

It should not need saying but I will for the sake of clarity. I am British/English and yet I feel that it is the very thin edge of the wedge once we dehumanise people and start referring to them as a group of 'asylum seekers', 'Afghans' 'Iraquis' &c... as if they are not really human and somehow the implication carried is that they are less than the natives and should be treated accordingly.

This is the bit which I find most offensive within your post. The arbitrary labelling of people in a way that is calculated to lessen them in the eyes of the natives is a slippery slope. Before you know it, we will insist that they wear striped clothing with a symbol on the back. That way lies madness and rightfully, we do, as a nation, reject it in its entirety.

Perish the thought that the BNP (or other similar organisations) should see and think that MB Club UK is a homely sort of place for them to post their mindless vitriol. I have no objection to the notion that some people are unwilling to contribute to the society in which they happen to find themselves. This is just as true of the idle indigenous population as it is for the lazy economic migrant.

The United Kingdom played its part in subjugating many of the world's nationalities (for pecuniary and/or strategic advantage) and I don't find it strange that some of those whom we dispossessed and ruled with a firm hand, now want to come to the UK and see if they can make some sort of amends for the past. The jingoistic tendencies of the UK population are easily aroused by the gutter press in the UK (most of the news appears to belong in the gutter) and issues are never aired in an unbiased manner. If you were an Albanian national and you chose to better your life for your family, how could anyone in their right mind object?

In conclusion, I have no objection to examining the issues in a calm and rational manner. I wont have any truck with the easy racist slur that accompanies the lazy intellectual process of grouping asylum seekers according to nationality and then failing to provide evidence for a decidedly jaundiced viewpoint. Discussions tend to be more civil if one of the parties to the discussion is not Brahms and Liszt.

 

[Dryce]

In conclusion, I have no objection to examining the issues in a calm and rational manner. I wont have any truck with the easy racist slur that accompanies the lazy intellectual process of grouping asylum seekers according to nationality and then failing to provide evidence for a decidedly jaundiced viewpoint. Discussions tend to be more civil if one of the parties to the discussion is not Brahms and Liszt.

What about this slur in the third post:

I'd rather have the hard working foreigners that contribute than the indigenous population who seem to think they're owed a living and populate the country with poorly brought up chav's with the same attitude, kick them out regardless of the fact they were born here.

The whole argument is about stereotypes and dogma - from all sides.

There isn't much actual rational public discussion at all.

 

[EVL]

I find it difficult to know what you are trying to say or what you are venting about. Without knowing what regulations apply to asylum seekers in the various EU countries, or whether there are EU rules which decree that all countries of the EU may be deemed equally 'safe' for the purpose of resettling asylum seekers... it is hard to understand what you are railing against.

It should not need saying but I will for the sake of clarity. I am British/English and yet I feel that it is the very thin edge of the wedge once we dehumanise people and start referring to them as a group of 'asylum seekers', 'Afghans' 'Iraquis' &c... as if they are not really human and somehow the implication carried is that they are less than the natives and should be treated
accordingly.

This is the bit which I find most offensive within your post. The arbitrary labelling of people in a way that is calculated to lessen them in the eyes of
the natives is a slippery slope. Before you know it, we will insist that they wear striped clothing with a symbol on the back. That way lies madness and rightfully, we do, as a nation, reject it in its entirety

Perish the thought that the BNP (or other similar organisations) should see and think that MB Club UK is a homely sort of place for them to post their mindless vitriol. I have no objection to the notion that some people are unwilling to contribute to the society in which they happen to find themselves. This is just
as true of the idle indigenous population as it is for the lazy economic migrant.

The United Kingdom played its part in subjugating many of the world's
nationalities (for pecuniary and/or strategic advantage) and I don't find it strange that some of those whom we dispossessed and ruled with a firm hand, now want to come to the UK and see if they can make some sort of amends
for the past. The jingoistic tendencies of the UK population are easily aroused by the gutter press in the UK (most of the news appears to belong in the gutter) and issues are never aired in an unbiased manner. If you were an
Albanian national and you chose to better your life for your family, how could anyone in their right mind object?
In conclusion, I have no objection to examining the issues in a calm and rational manner. I wont have any truck with the easy racist slur that accompanies the lazy intellectual process of grouping asylum seekers according to nationality and then failing to provide evidence for a decidedly jaundiced
viewpoint. Discussions tend to be more civil if one of the parties to the discussion is not Brahms and Liszt.

I'm a member of a few forums and have only recently joined this one.
I've come across similar subjects on other forums and I think the above post is one of the best (in my opinion) I've come across.
Very well put!