Gud Edukashun

[Dryce]

Each year there are plausible claims about how school examinations are becoming devalued through grading.

So according to this article the AQA is going to further break a broken system.

Exam board to penalise private school pupils - Education News, Education - The Independent

Making the system fairer is fine in principle but my gut reaction to this is that not only is it nonsense but it reflects very badly on the organisation that proposes it.

IMO it shows that the organisation is defective.

 

[Igurisu]

It seems to me that the AQA is throwing in the towel regarding the standard of state funded education. Instead of aiming to meet or surpass the level of private education, they will try to hamstring it.

 

[grober]

I guess it depends on whether you feel that paying £5,000 a term confers an artificial academic advantage- smaller class sizes, better motivated teachers, better resources/equipment, social skill set --- over a state funded school education . Judging by the number of privately educated/ oxbridge individuals in the cabinet/shadow cabinet and houses of parliament the evidence would seem to be yes. Whether this results in the most capable bunch of people to run the country the evidence would seem to be no.

 

[moonloops]

I thought gud edukashun was an Austrian ski resort?

 

[Dryce]

Judging by the number of privately educated/ oxbridge individuals in the cabinet/shadow cabinet and houses of parliament the evidence would seem to be yes. Whether this results in the most capable bunch of people to run the country the evidence would seem to be no.

The real advantage that these people get isn't the education itself but the access to a developing and influential network in their teens/early twenties.

Trying to put in a 'fix' school results just breaks things more than they are already - they should remain an absolute and dependable. It doesn't resolve the networking problem - it may ultimately taint the schools and the pupils who take exams at those schools. (A good pupil with an A from Rottenbourough then is seen as being less worthy than a pupil with an A from Poshcester).

 

[renault12ts]

Learning is about background.

On the whole, kids from a better background will do better at school. Not because they are better, but because their ethos is different.

It's the input from the parents above all else which determines how well a child will do. There are exceptions which serve to prove the rule.

I have seen children from non English speaking backgrounds, poor as church mice, achieve greatness, because they were hugely encouraged by their parents. I have also seen local children, allowed to do what they like,from well to do homes, fail.

Peer pressure also accounts for how well kids do...if the rest of your class under achieves...then so will you (mostly). If everyone is striving for good results, then everyone will be dragged up.

To penalise better schools is a nonsense. If a child will not achieve his/her best at school, then why will they suddenly do it at University?

 

[Dryce]

On the whole, kids from a better background will do better at school. Not because they are better, but because their ethos is different.

It's the input from the parents above all else which determines how well a child will do. There are exceptions which serve to prove the rule.

ISTR the a US study that showed that the parents were more important than the school. This is masked because motivated parents have an impact on the choice of school.

 

[jepho]

Learning is about background.

On the whole, kids from a better background will do better at school. Not because they are better, but because their ethos is different.

It's the input from the parents above all else which determines how well a child will do. There are exceptions which serve to prove the rule.

I have seen children from non English speaking backgrounds, poor as church mice, achieve greatness, because they were hugely encouraged by their parents. I have also seen local children, allowed to do what they like,from well to do homes, fail.

Peer pressure also accounts for how well kids do...if the rest of your class under achieves...then so will you (mostly). If everyone is striving for good results, then everyone will be dragged up.

To penalise better schools is a nonsense. If a child will not achieve his/her best at school, then why will they suddenly do it at University?

I agree with most of this post. My son turned twelve at the beginning of September and he was in a middle school. The school did what it could and the result was an average performance across the board. My son was at the top of every class in addition to being a competent musician. We could not have considered anything other than standard state education for him. During the summer school vacation, I accompanied him to an informal interview and an informal audition at an independent school. I was hoping to get some guidance on what he might need to do to achieve a higher standard and thereby become eligible for an assisted place.

To our great surprise, the school wanted him to begin as a student this September. They dealt with many obstacles and made a space available in boarding accommodation for my son and we receive very generous assistance with the fees. What has prompted this posting is that my son is now home for the weekend after just 3 weeks of independent schooling. The difference is very noticeable. He is self-assured, happy, interested in everything and a far more accomplished pianist with a really new approach to his playing. I have nothing but praise for the school and their determination to offer my son a place.

Regarding the OP: tinkering at the edges of education while disrupting it comprehensively (no pun intended) with each successive government, is one of the reasons that our schools are failing our future generation.

 

[NW_Merc]

I am so glad I gave up being a teacher. Education used to be regarded as a privilege. I remember when I was younger, you were a special type of person when you managed to gain a place at university and then graduate with a good degree. Now, everyone takes the education system for granted. There are adults who have come through the system, who cannot string a coherent sentence together but that doesnt matter.

Schools are pushing that all children must get a grade at GCSE. Some who wont progress beyond GCSE but will get 3 or 4 or 5 GCSEs in the same subject so that the school can bump up its performance figures. Why? So the government can show that more children are making progress under their estute leadership. It's all a farce. Because of this drivel, children who would normally do very well in state schools have to settle for second best, wasting time getting more GCSEs that they will ever need. Education needs to return to core concepts and then build from there. For those who can't cope they should have vocational training and apprenticeships. This in turn would create more jobs and a possible revival of manufacturing in this country. I think I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[jepho]

I am so glad I gave up being a teacher. Education used to be regarded as a privilege. I remember when I was younger, you were a special type of person when you managed to gain a place at university and then graduate with a good degree. Now, everyone takes the education system for granted. There are adults who have come through the system, who cannot string a coherent sentence together but that doesnt matter.

Education is still a privilege. I feel exceptionally fortunate that a good school was eager to take my son to give him a well-rounded education. He aspires to be either a high court judge or a brain surgeon and he will have some difficulty in achieving his dreams without a formal, classical education. The education system as it stands is barely able to ensure that all of our children are literate and numerate.

Currently, state educational provision appears as if it is one giant Summerhill experiment. Even AS Neill would have acknowledged the fact that several of the famous people, who had passed through the portals of Summerhill School, were utterly unable to benefit from its associated freedoms from adult authority and interference. As far as I can tell, children need to be given clear and explicit boundaries that are immutable. Against that background they can grow up straight and meet known and acceptable standards of conduct; which pertain in the wider community.

The Quixotic New-Labour nonsense which had mandated and promulgated the liberal use of idiotic neologisms in education such as the term "deferred success", presumably to avoid upsetting the fragile minds of growing children; was responsible for many children not knowing why they were being obliged to attend school in the first place.

Schools are pushing that all children must get a grade at GCSE. Some who wont progress beyond GCSE but will get 3 or 4 or 5 GCSEs in the same subject so that the school can bump up its performance figures. Why? So the government can show that more children are making progress under their estute leadership. It's all a farce. Because of this drivel, children who would normally do very well in state schools have to settle for second best, wasting time getting more GCSEs that they will ever need. Education needs to return to core concepts and then build from there. For those who can't cope they should have vocational training and apprenticeships. This in turn would create more jobs and a possible revival of manufacturing in this country. I think I'll get off my soap box now.

Some GCSE examinations are irrelevant for a chosen career pathway but it is probable that careers pathways per se are not the subject matter of many a secondary school nowadays. School examination results are largely irrelevant after one obtains a university place. No-one cares about GCSE 'qualifications' in the job market. That GCSE is still considered to be a measure of anything useful astonishes me. I was a poor maths student during my schooldays (late 50s early 60s) and I was not permitted to sit GCE maths at 'O' level because I was considered to be too thick. Recently, I had occasion to examine an online GCSE 'A' level maths paper and just for pig iron, I sat the exam and scored 82%! At best, GCSE results indicate an ability to apply rational thought to problem solving and an ability to retain information. They say nothing about the candidate who is applying for a course of further study or a particular job.

Core concepts? The only core concept which I feel to be essential is to request that the children actually do some work. My son's middle school had a homework policy that was supposed to set 3 core subjects per week... all the work was to be handed in by the following week... frequently it was left unmarked and undiscussed. Many evenings passed without my son having even one core subject per week! In his current school (with its much longer day) he gets two or three pieces of homework per night, which have to be handed in by the following day, no ifs, buts or maybes. He has to complete all of his homework without a computer (they actually use books... remember those?) and all written work must be done with a fountain pen. Even my state school had once insisted on similar conditions for every one of its 1300 pupils in class sizes of 44 children. My son is now in class sizes of 8 - 12 and he has individual tuition in his specialist subjects.

All we can really do for our kids is to give them unconditional love and a good education.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

You can rearrange the chairs as many times as you want, but the simple fact is if you're parents can afford to send you to a private school they will and you will be more successful in your working life than if you'd not gone.

The injustice for me is not the toffs and their 'Bullingdon clubs', but those from less wealthy backgrounds that slip through the net, and who, given the chance could be more successful than their private school equivalent.

 

[jepho]

You can rearrange the chairs as many times as you want, but the simple fact is if you're parents can afford to send you to a private school they will and you will be more successful in your working life than if you'd not gone.

The injustice for me is not the toffs and their 'Bullingdon clubs', but those from less wealthy backgrounds that slip through the net, and who, given the chance could be more successful than their private school equivalent.

I think of private education as something that one can either afford to utilise or not. The bill for a single term at my son's new school is huge and I do not know anyone who could afford it. Private schools are commercial enterprises and the one my son is now attending can only assist places for around 12% of its student intake. Everyone else has to pay.

Weighting entrance requirements (as proposed by the AQA) does nothing but falsely engineers the results gained by poorer families. I am not in favour of the population being given equal opportunities (such as the same amount of money at birth) by dint of legislation. I want people to have an equal chance. We know that people do different things with similar resources. Some will work hard and some will squander the opportunity. We don't all have the ability to do well in higher education and we should stop pretending that we do.

The problem I perceive is that schools are no longer required to teach the pupils... they only have to position themselves high enough on the performance league tables.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Out of interest Jepho, how much would a term normally cost?

I'd understand if you didn't want to divulge...

 

[jepho]

Out of interest Jepho, how much would a term normally cost?

I'd understand if you didn't want to divulge...

The basic fee per term for my son's education is £11,303

 

[renault12ts]

You can rearrange the chairs as many times as you want, but the simple fact is if you're parents can afford to send you to a private school they will and you will be more successful in your working life than if you'd not gone.

The injustice for me is not the toffs and their 'Bullingdon clubs', but those from less wealthy backgrounds that slip through the net, and who, given the chance could be more successful than their private school equivalent.

As a parent you can either afford private education or not...true.

Everyone , however, can encourage their kids. The value of such encouragement should not be underestimated. One of my best friends could not afford private education...but his father believed in education, and as a consequence of his encouragement and guidance, my friend has excelled at anything he ever did.

 

[DITTRICH]

day school Independent fees in London around £15k per year
boarding school fees anywhere might be £25k - £30k per year
the fees cover basic tuition and in the case of boarding school, accommodation.
there are extras to pay including clothes, kit, school trips, specialist tuition eg music, exam fees ans so on. it is not cheap.
The main advantage is that the children sit in much smaller class sizes which at age 11 would be 15 - 20 per form falling further at the a level stage in some subjects - ten or less. then they are stretched more, encouraged more...
my son went to a state primary school and now attends an independent secondary school. the difference is staggering.

 

[jepho]

As a parent you can either afford private education or not...true.

Everyone , however, can encourage their kids. The value of such encouragement should no be underestimated. One of my best friends could not afford private education...but his father believed in education, and as a consequence of his encouragement and guidance, my friend has excelled at anything he ever did.

I was in a similar position to your friend and finally, my son has been noticed and given the recognition for his hard work. He was self-teaching all of the core curriculum at Key stage 3 when he was 10. I have always encouraged him to do well... not by beating the work of others but by beating the work of himself. I have taught him that there is no point in doing anything badly so he just naturally applies himself to everything he does.

 

[MOCAŠ]

The basic fee per term for my son's education is £11,303

Surely that's got to be the highest per-term fee in the country?

 

[renault12ts]

Rightly or wrongly, in NI we still have grammar schools. Entrance until recently was by a common 11plus. But the present Govt in NI want to abolish Grammar schools so the common entrance was abolished. The schools now set their own exams. Not as bad as it seems because there are still broadly only two different exams to cover all participating schools.

Under the old system all my kids qualified and hence attended Grammar school. The fees were about £200 pa. They did well and all went to University.

We are fortunate that the type of private education which is seen as an imperative in England, does not exist in NI. Even the best private schools will not accept kids on fees alone, but on attainment of good entrance results, and the maintenance of results thereafter.

 

[renault12ts]

Surely that's got to be the highest per-term fee in the country?

Must be, even Eton is only £10327 per term.