Guitars

[developer]

Hello Musical Maestro's,

My 17 year old son plays electric acoustic guitar and sings - I've shown his stuff on here a couple of times. He plays blues, country, pop etc.

His guitar is central to his life and currently he plays a Crafter which I paid about £350.00 for.

It's a step up from his original guitar but at the open mic night I take him to there are better sounding guitars, albeit played by better guitarists.

If I wanted to move up a step in electric acoustic's what should I be looking at please?

One guy plays the most beautiful sounding instrument called a Bourgeois and another plays a Martin. I have also heard about Taylor.

I'm aware these are top end instruments but for the right one I'd consider looking at them.

Any thoughts about other options please - maybe the better Yamaha's or Takamichi?

Should I look for a particular type of pickup (something else I've been told about) - are pick up's a whole new area to consider?

Should I go for a narrower bodied type as per his Crafter, or do the fuller bodied guitars give a better sound?

I've also been advised to look at ebay with the suggestion being that I could get a top draw instrument for a lot less than new - what do you think?

For the purpose of my question lets assume I have a budget of up to £1500, but would obviously want to pay less if possible.

All advice very welcome guys/gals.

 

[camerafodder]

My very good friend Roger Bucknall is one of the worlds leading acoustic guitar makers. This is his website:

Handmade acoustic guitars - Fylde guitars website - Home to Roger Bucknall - master luthier, hand-crafted acoustic guitars, mandolins, mandolas, citterns and bouzoukis.

I have two of his instruments, a custom Alchemist and a 12 string version of the Falstaff. Amazing instruments...and British too!

You can sometimes find his instruments on ebay.

 

[Stratman]

As with anything else, ebay can be a minefield. There are so many shops and internet dealers competing with each other nowadays you can get some very good deals with much more security.

GuitarGuitar in Hagley Road is a huge shop and will have all the brands you have mentioned and more besides. The only person who can decide what sounds 'best' is the person playing it. One top guitarist may like a jangly top end, another may prefer a booming bottom. Take your lad along and be prepared to spend the entire day there. Your budget will be more than adequate for all but the exotica, it will certainly cover Martin, Takamine, Yamaha and a low end Taylor.

If you fancy travelling further afield I can recommend Guitar Village in Farnham, Surrey. They stock the well known brands and some of the lesser known but just as good ones.

Don't be swayed by the name on the headstock, get the one that sounds and feels the way you (or rather your son) want.

 

[bolide]

Don't be swayed by the name on the headstock, get the one that sounds and feels the way you (or rather your son) want.

Completely agree with that. I have a £5 junk shop guitar that sounds lovely and records well

Does he use amplification? It might change what you need. A guitar with a good built-in pickup that works well with a PA might be a good idea. I remember Ovation guitars (with the plastic back) used to have that

The other thing you have to bear in mind is that the best way to make a guitar sound amazing is to put it in the hands of a brilliant guitarist

Nick Froome

 

[camerafodder]

As with anything else, ebay can be a minefield. There are so many shops and internet dealers competing with each other nowadays you can get some very good deals with much more security.

GuitarGuitar in Hagley Road is a huge shop and will have all the brands you have mentioned and more besides. The only person who can decide what sounds 'best' is the person playing it. One top guitarist may like a jangly top end, another may prefer a booming bottom. Take your lad along and be prepared to spend the entire day there. Your budget will be more than adequate for all but the exotica, it will certainly cover Martin, Takamine, Yamaha and a low end Taylor.

If you fancy travelling further afield I can recommend Guitar Village in Farnham, Surrey. They stock the well known brands and some of the lesser known but just as good ones.

Don't be swayed by the name on the headstock, get the one that sounds and feels the way you (or rather your son) want.

This is excellent advice

 

[developer]

Thanks for the replies .

He always plays amplified - are there different types of pick ups in the same way hifi has different types of CD transport, for example?

 

[A210AMG]

Hello

I cannot help on what make or anything similar as I cannot play. I would love to play the guitar. I love Mark Knopflers music and would so so love to play some music like that.


However, is it a bit like buying a camera in that, you need (or your son needs) to hold, touch and feel it?

I'm sure they are not all the same, so rather than choose what 'should' be better say... if it doesn't feel right then your not going to get the best from it?

I would suggest visiting the types of shops that stock these and have your son, hold, play, try etc

You can always make a mental note and get on the bay soon after?

 

[Dave Lewis]

The Taylor Expression pickup system works very well through an amp or direct into the PA. Sounds full clear and natural. It's a combination of 2 contact mics suspended in space-jelly under the sound board, and another piezo under the bridge. Three discreet knobs: treble, bass, volume. Pre amp designed by Rupert Neve. Taylors are very well made, sound good and play well. Great support too. I use a 355 12-string on the road and in the studio. They hold their value well too. Worth the money imho, I bought mine 7 years ago for £1400, I only popped into the shop for some plectrums.....

 

[scottishman2]

I have an Ovation Ultra - imho one of the best "electro acoustic" systems on the market ever -- but the round back bowl can be a sod if you have a beer belly (trust me !!). I also have a 2 yamaha's and a suzuki (if only Kawasaki made guitars I could have a set!!) and the Yamahas have nice built in electronics.

However - if you want a good - budget type - guitar, with good equalisers/pick ups... then its £1200 on a taylor 314CE... awesome sound plugged or unplugged - consistent action, superb reliability, and make most Martins sound like over priced marketing brands.... (I say most - cos the Rory Gallagher signature Martin is still awesome -- but £5K probably for a good one!!)

Another tip for newbies (and every kid on the block wants to be a star these days) - buy a Washburn WD10S acoustic - great value budget beginner with a great sound...

 

[grober]

Another vote for Taylors from me.

 

[ss201]

A little something to inspire your son to keep practising.....

Rivera-Doyle Dykes plays "Wabash Cannonball" w/Sedona 5 - YouTube

Doyle Dykes is Taylor Guitars official demonstrator. I was fortunate to watch one of his dealer demos and was completely blown away. Hand him any Taylor guitar and he makes it sound fantastic.

Speaks volumes that he was the one guitarist invited to play at Chet Atkins' funeral...............

And if your son gets despondent having seen this superb display of vituosity - play him this clip and tell him he doesn't need to be the world's greatest guitar player to make a living if he can write songs like this. Guy Clark - proving once again that less is more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFwSsqkQiBY

Brings me to tears every time I listen to that song.

 

[Benzowner]

I would have thought with the diversity of your sons music, he will want more than one guitar could be more expensive than you thought but it is christmas

 

[Druk]

My very good friend Roger Bucknall is one of the worlds leading acoustic guitar makers. This is his website:

Handmade acoustic guitars - Fylde guitars website - Home to Roger Bucknall - master luthier, hand-crafted acoustic guitars, mandolins, mandolas, citterns and bouzoukis.

Even if you're not remotely interested in guitars or playing the sheer beauty and craftsmanship on show in this website is worth a browse. Thanks CF.

 

[Mr E]

As with anything else, ebay can be a minefield. There are so many shops and internet dealers competing with each other nowadays you can get some very good deals with much more security.

GuitarGuitar in Hagley Road is a huge shop and will have all the brands you have mentioned and more besides. The only person who can decide what sounds 'best' is the person playing it. One top guitarist may like a jangly top end, another may prefer a booming bottom. Take your lad along and be prepared to spend the entire day there. Your budget will be more than adequate for all but the exotica, it will certainly cover Martin, Takamine, Yamaha and a low end Taylor.

If you fancy travelling further afield I can recommend Guitar Village in Farnham, Surrey. They stock the well known brands and some of the lesser known but just as good ones.

Don't be swayed by the name on the headstock, get the one that sounds and feels the way you (or rather your son) want.

I started writing a response yesterday and got waylaid, but Stratman sums up nicely what I was writing.

It matters not what the name on the headstock is, if it doesn't handle and sound the way that your son wants then it's not the one for him. That's why you need to get into a store and play them - and take as much time as you need.

A friend of mine has an ****nal of exotica, but 90% of his writing, noodling and studio work is done with a Yamaha as it feels very comfortable to him. I can't get on with it at all, but love one of the Lowdens he has. I haven't had a vast number of electro-acoustics, but I've had a Tanglewood bowlback (similar to the Ovation) for about 15 years which is great for me (and I echo the beer belly comment too!). At the end of the day, it's about what it feels and sounds like to the player.

Have fun choosing it, and watching him play.

As an aside, I remember my parents buying me my first decent classical guitar and their pride in watching me play it in public during a recital. I had the same thing too recently with E Jnr - he's been bashing a Les Paul copy for a few months and got up at a gig with me recently to play rhythm on a couple of numbers. Absolutely fantastic to do, and his grandparents had that same look too.

 

[brucemillar]

Ovation did start (possibly still do) molding a grip into the base of the round-backs. This was an attempt to stop them slipping if you like playing them sitting down. I have a 1866 12 string ovation that I may be selling shortly. Lovely guitar plugged or unplugged. Also a Tanglewood six string. Sound on this varies hugely dependent on strings used. Heavy Gauge it sounds dull. Light gauge sounds very nice but does rather go through strings.

As above. You can find junk shop guitars that sound to die for. So much is about how you feel if you like it you will work with it. All instruments will vary in sound depending on the accoustics of where you are at the time. So the shop may well sound better than your living room (or not).

Don't buy on name as that is no measure of how you or others will feel when playing.

I believe that Seasick Steve's instrument of choice may well not impress the top end guitar makers too much.

 

[Mr E]

Ovation did start (possibly still do) molding a grip into the base of the round-backs. This was an attempt to stop them slipping if you like playing them sitting down. I have a 1866 12 string ovation that I may be selling shortly. Lovely guitar plugged or unplugged. Also a Tanglewood six string. Sound on this varies hugely dependent on strings used. Heavy Gauge it sounds dull. Light gauge sounds very nice but does rather go through strings.

Ah - I've always fancied a 12-string. Let me know if you decide to sell.

 

[developer]

A quick Update

Well, a morning of guitar testing today at PMT Birmingham.

Greg and I were made very welcome, with seats and coffee while he perused/played various offerings.

He tried a Gibson L200, a Martin D28, a Taylor 714CE and a Taylor 814CE - he's not aware of what model numbers mean and doesn't really "get" prices.

He quickly relegated the Gibson as sounding like his current Crafter and while he felt the Martin was better, it didn't float his boat.

That left the two Taylors.

Again, unaware of the price difference or that 814 is the next model up from 714 he liked the 814CE and I agreed it was just a bit better at everything than the 714CE.

So, after a little haggling over price, by his big bad Dad, he's now the proud owner owner of a Taylor 814CE and I must say, it sounds fabulous.

Part way through the sessions I asked him if he was enjoying himself - "it's my home" was his reply - which just makes it all worthwhile for me .

Here's a shot of the kid in the candy shop:

 

[grober]

The 814 has a Sitka Spruce soundboard whereas the 714 CE is Western Red Cedar----- both have Indian Rosewood bodies. Sitka is renowned for its bright tone and dynamic range [80/90 % of good guitars use it] Red Cedar gives a darker smoother tone more suited to finger style playing so I'm not surprised he preferred the livelier 814. That's where its great to play these guitars back to back. Played alone the 714 is a lovely sounding guitar. Its only by playing it beside the 814 will you perceive the difference.

 

[Stratman]

Excellent! I love the way he just dismissed a £2k guitar as no better than his Crafter Then again, it perfectly illustrates the point made by many of us, 'don't be swayed by the name on the headstock.'

It sounds like you found a good shop too, one that's interested in your future custom rather than just a quick sale.

Perhaps when Greg's rich and famous he'll return the favour and let his old man loose in the MB showroom

 

[Mr E]

Cool.

It's also worth remembering that this will also "play in" over time too. Hope he continues to enjoy it for many years.