Had a run in with a Subaru salesman !

robert.saunders

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I would never suggest you want to kill yourself or anyone, I simply don't agree to such speeds when kids are on board.

I love this video - you've probably seen it before. There are 2 scenes (poor PC Langley) - first is the truck, the second his blowout at circa 120mph, rush hour, damp. I don't want to get into an argument over speed and where it's appropriate, but I simply cannot understand why anyone thinks they can control a car if something goes wrong - whether it's a truck pulling out on you at near 130mph or a tyre going at 120mph. As I say, when on your own (and really I mean an empty road too), it's your choice.

With passengers, or worse in my opinion, with kids, I just cannot see any justification. Sorry :)
 
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GRAV888

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I notice in that video, when he's talking to the lorry driver, that he says he failed to notice a police vehicle with it's lights on.
He said earlier, before the crash, there was no need to put the lights on.
The lorry driver could have always said, since he was indicating, that flashing headlights were an indication that he was being allowed to pull out.
I know HGV's are not allowed in lane 3, but this was a rental lorry and probably had an inexperienced agency driver behind the wheel.
Surely the police car should have had his blues and twos on as he was exceeding the speed limit by almost double.
6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other I think.
 
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robert.saunders

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To be frank, I'm not interested if the Police car had all blue and twos on or was in silent mode - the point being, the silly policeman and his car collided with the silly lorry driver and his trailer. Whoever is at fault, and it's immaterial, the car and the lorry still collided - it is just an example of my previous post - no matter how good we think we are, things like this happen. And at 120mph or so it wasn't so bad; at 160mph or so, it surely would have been worse :confused:
 

GRAV888

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I agree, in that at 160mph, the policeman would probably now be pushing up the daisies:crazy:
 
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robert.saunders

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Aye...

Sorry to wander OT; a friend of mine is a lorry driver and years ago I went with him as a passenger to Italy and back. One thing he said to me in all earnest and has stuck in my mind ever since, is that if ever a car were to hit his trailer (for example on a motorway) he may not hear or feel it in his cab. That scared the poop outta me :eek:
 

timskemp

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The video is an example of poor judgement on the copper's behalf.

Firstly with the truck, he deemed passing the truck at double its speed without blues/twos as a safe thing to do - I seem to recall that a speed differential greater than 20mph is not recommended unless blues are showing. Flashing headlights will just add to the confusion.


Secondly - unlucky. But again his risk assessment shows some failures - can I suggest that only a fool breaks the two second rule, and that also he was aware that the debris in the hatched area is a risk to the vehicle and its tyres and maybe should not have used it at high speed.
 

timskemp

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To be frank, I'm not interested if the Police car had all blue and twos on or was in silent mode - the point being, the silly policeman and his car collided with the silly lorry driver and his trailer. Whoever is at fault, and it's immaterial, the car and the lorry still collided - it is just an example of my previous post - no matter how good we think we are, things like this happen. And at 120mph or so it wasn't so bad; at 160mph or so, it surely would have been worse :confused:

At 50mph it would not have happened - what's your point again?
 

robert.saunders

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I thought I was clear earlier.

I don't care if you drive at 60 or 160, I really don't. You speed, I speed, lots of people speed.

My point is: I don't agree with 160mph when your kids are on board. That was my point earlier, perhaps it was lost in the thread.
 

timskemp

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I thought I was clear earlier.

I don't care if you drive at 60 or 160, I really don't. You speed, I speed, lots of people speed.

My point is: I don't agree with 160mph when your kids are on board. That was my point earlier, perhaps it was lost in the thread.

OK, so can I drive at 150? 140? 130? 120? 100? 90? 70? 50? 35?

Please let me know, because obviously there's an importance about a certain number that I'm not aware of!
 

GRAV888

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Are you suggesting that my life is worth less than that of my childrens :) I have no intention of killing myself or anyone else, and again - of driving at 190mph in front of our local school at 9am, although that might improve society around here.

I think the point here is that your childrens lifes are worth the same as yours, but what if something WERE to happen at 160mph with you kids in the car.
Say, god forbid, that you had a blowout, crashed and you were the only one to survive.
How would you feel then?
What if you wiped someone else out in another vehicle too at the same time?
 

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I notice in that video, when he's talking to the lorry driver, that he says he failed to notice a police vehicle with it's lights on.
He said earlier, before the crash, there was no need to put the lights on.
The lorry driver could have always said, since he was indicating, that flashing headlights were an indication that he was being allowed to pull out.
I know HGV's are not allowed in lane 3, but this was a rental lorry and probably had an inexperienced agency driver behind the wheel.
Surely the police car should have had his blues and twos on as he was exceeding the speed limit by almost double.
6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other I think.

Although its the trucks fault for pulling into a lane which they're not allowed, the police driver should have anticipated it earlier and begun to slow down. The truck had its indicator on, was progressively moving to the right.

When i drive at them speeds and see a truck getting into the middle lane from the first, i will slow down as trucks can often swing slightly into the first lane.

Also the police officer should have been able to brake earlier and swerve the other way round the truck.
 

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Just stay safe mate :cool:
Hi Robert,
I have agreed with all your very valid points but fear others don't. I believe it might be inflammatory to stand in judgement and voice opinions about what we deem acceptable, but suffice it to say I have listened to more than my fare share of............. 'If only'

No one but no one should deliberately endanger someone elses life and when an innocent party suffers serious injury or worse, we then see the remorse and have to listen to the 'If Only' type regrets.

I bet folks state they check their tyres, ensure the pressures are correct for the very relevant weight of the vehicle when it travels at high speed, but hand on heart, in truth, how many really do?

Regards
John
 

KLP 92

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did I hear someone play the "think of the childru-u-u-n" card?

I've driven at 140 mph with my four kids in the car on many occasions, and 160 on one. Whenever you use the roads you must perform a risk assessment. On the correct roads, in the correct conditions, with the correct equipment and operator the appropriate speed may be well below the speed limit. However that does not mean that a speed above the speed limit is dangerous.

Have to diagree.

Driving at 140mph under most conditions on public roads is not safe. Most accidents at this speed happen due to driver error, and other drivers on the road unable to judge the speed you are travelling at.

I have done my fair share of high speed motorway driving, i consider myself to be a fairly good driver BUT i will not be doing 140mph with passenger's in the vehicle.

Has it ever crossed your mind if you were o have a blow out at that speed with your kids in the car?? :crazy: Kids are more sucsepitible to injuries than adults, imwould not even want to think of the possible outcome.

So no, its not safe whichever way you look at it. You may be the best driver in the world but there are a number of variables that are not in your control.

I also believe that speeds over 120mph and unsafe for public roads under any conditions. Past these speeds you will be affected by dips in the road, cross winds etc. Its your choice to speed, but don't put the life of your passengers and other road users in danger.
 

timskemp

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I bet folks state they check their tyres, ensure the pressures are correct for the very relevant weight of the vehicle when it travels at high speed, but hand on heart, in truth, how many really do?

Oddly enough I do. My tyre pressures are set when I'm going on a trans-continental to the "full load >160kmh" recommendations - contrary to what some may be thinking I'm not an irresponsible street racer...
 

timskemp

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Have to diagree.

As is your right! (don't let Europe take it away!)

I also believe that speeds over 120mph and unsafe for public roads under any conditions. Past these speeds you will be affected by dips in the road, cross winds etc. Its your choice to speed, but don't put the life of your passengers and other road users in danger.

Indeed dips, crosswinds etc are an issue at much lower speeds, hence speed must always be assessed alongside conditions.
 

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My old sergeant once said,

"Son, if your in a group of four soldiers, and three of them say your out of step........

Then your out of step!" ;)

Regards
John
 

KLP 92

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As is your right! (don't let Europe take it away!)



Indeed dips, crosswinds etc are an issue at much lower speeds, hence speed must always be assessed alongside conditions.

I lost someone very close to me in a high speed car accident. It was a single vehicle accidient, most likely down to driver error. The driver of the car survived and trust me, he wishes he died as well. He was a semi pro rally driver so had plenty of experience under his belt. Nothing worse than living with the fact that your actions had a consequence like that.

I'll say it again, i drive across europe at high speed, i've owned some quick cars and driven them to potential, BUT i will not drive like that with family/kids in the car.

There are some variables that you simply cannot judge, and with speeds of 140mph, let alone 160 mph will have tradgic consequences.

I wish your kids/family good luck and safe journey if you continue.
 
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timskemp

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I lost someone very close to me in a high speed car accident. It was a single vehicle accidient, most likely down to driver error. The driver of the car survived and trust me, he wishes he died as well. He was a semi pro rally driver so had plenty of experience under his belt. Nothing worse than living with the fact that your actions had a consequence like that.

My sympathies go out to you for the loss. Accidents do happen, and I am of the opinion that road use is a dangerous and risky activity. Any loss of life is unacceptable, however the blanket "speed kills" mantra that is coming across is over simplification in extremis.

There are some variables that you simply cannot judge, and with speeds of 140mph, let alone 160 mph will have tradgic consequences.

My only reason for continuing this is to ascertain why 160 is deemed more dangerous than 140, or 120, or 100, or 80, in isolation. Yes, 160 across a zebra crossing in front of a school is more dangerous than the 20 that is more appropriate, but 160 on a clear unrestricted road on a cool summers evening with excellent visibility in a car capable of 175mph is no more dangerous or risky than 70 on a clear UK motorway in a 2CV. In fact as the police video shows, a blowout at 120mph need not injure the ocucpant of the vehicle (or occupants, he probably had TV crew also) but the consequences of driving with a huge speed differential to that of the other road users are clear.
 

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The lorry driver could have always said, since he was indicating, that flashing headlights were an indication that he was being allowed to pull out..
I am very biased against a certain section of our Police service so please feel free to put me right regarding the following observations.

About 1:30 seconds into the commentary the journalist states the patrol car has flashing headlights in operation? About 20 seconds later the Police Officer states he had his headlights on?

Look at the video as the patrol car attempts to pass the HGV..... There is no trace of any illumination? There is a slight edit and it looks like the lights are then switched on; but as the patrol vehicle closes for a second attempt at passing the HGV\LGV just look at how the rear of the truck is illuminated by the flashing headlights???? Why didn't we see this when the Police vehicle first closed on the truck?

Surely the police car should have had his blues and twos on as he was exceeding the speed limit by almost double.
6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other I think.
It pains me to say this but I don't really see the need for an audible warning device when driving at these speeds. How much sound insulation do you have in your very modern truck?:) I believe there has been huge amounts of development into noise penetration, and the old two tones were useless at speeds over 70mph, the noise was louder in the cabin than in front of it? Having the sirens working at these very high speeds also tend to increase the adrenalin, but I believe all fire engines have the sirens wired into the ignition :devil: :devil: :D

I personally would go along with BOTH parties contributing to the incident, but I put 80% into the lap of the Police vehicle and 20% truck driver for not checking his rear view mirrors an d if he went into a prohibited lane??? Had it reduced to two? The Police Officer was a galah, he clearly saw the vehicle indicating, he clearly saw the vehicle moving into the offside lane??

Hang him! :devil:

John
 

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