Had a run in with a Subaru salesman !

robert.saunders

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My sympathies go out to you for the loss. Accidents do happen, and I am of the opinion that road use is a dangerous and risky activity. Any loss of life is unacceptable, however the blanket "speed kills" mantra that is coming across is over simplification in extremis.
I think you're missing the objective views that are being put to you - I don't really think anyone is worried what speed you drive it, if you're comfortable at 160mph then go for it, have fun.

I just hope you stay safe and that no-one (that includes your family as well as other road users) is put at risk.

Rob
 
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robert.saunders

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I didn't intend to go into the rights and wrongs of the clip(s) but I agree, I think the Police driver was at best marginal in his approach to it being totally the truck drivers fault and that he had no sympathy was not, in my view, a great remark to make to camera. I don't suppose we'll ever know the outcome of this incident but it didn't look too clever.

About 1:30 seconds into the commentary the journalist states the patrol car has flashing headlights in operation? About 20 seconds later the Police Officer states he had his headlights on?
I think this is over-simplistic journalism at its best! I think all the Volvo had on was its daytime running lights.

The Police Officer was a galah, he clearly saw the vehicle indicating, he clearly saw the vehicle moving into the offside lane??

Hang him! :devil:

John
I agree, certainly viewing the car-mounted camera (it wasn't hand-held to be that steady!) the truck indicator was early enough to make the Police driver ease up sooner, I would have thought?

As for the 2nd clip, I don't think anyone would be able to control such an incident, despite intentions otherwise? That's sheer luck in my book, but reinforces my earlier point that anything can happen at any speed, and we shouldn't be relying on luck to save our butts?
 

jaymanek

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erm i dont agree, i would not have expected the truck driver to come into the 3rd lane...
many people leave indicators on for longer than they should and as you become more experienced you see this more and more and adjust to mistakes like this.
If it was a car, i would have been cautious but not with an arctic..

I do agree that he's a bit of an idiot to go on TV as there were some faults of his own there..
 

robert.saunders

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erm i dont agree, i would not have expected the truck driver to come into the 3rd lane...
I agree with you totally, I wouldn't have expected the truck to go to lane 3 either, but, and I'm not just saying this, I really think the Police driver should have, it was an end of motorway after all and a large roundabout - the PC was clearly not expecting the unexpected - something that I would expect of him and his "superior driving ability", and frankly if I was closing on a truck at 120mph and upon a large roundabout I wouldn't have put myself in the "nowhere to go" area anyway, ie between truck and central barrier (a gap that you can clearly see was diminishing all the time on the approach!).
 

jaymanek

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i have to agree that the roundabout looked as if it was very near to be going at 130mph+
 

glojo

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erm i dont agree, i would not have expected the truck driver to come into the 3rd lane....
Hi Jay,
I've said it a few times on this forum, and I'll throw it in again.

As an advanced motor cycle instructor I drummed it into my pupils that they should always assume that ALL other road users are idiots. To 'assume' a vehicle is not going to change lanes when it was clearly evident that is was is verging on suicidal. Tol be in the right and dead is not the best or wisest place to be. That truck was CLEARLY indicating AND most important it was changing course. I fully accept it should not move out into the third lane but so what? To say he shouldn't do it and then attempt to plough through a non existant gap is rediculous. Everything that Police driver saw indicated the clear intentions of the truck driver.

A good driver is taught all about anticipation. We saw a class 1 driver fail miserably to anticipate that manouvre, I am not using hind sight, I am basing these observations on experience. Anticipation and observation lead to a longer life. As my old sergeant always used to say, "Being in the right, so get out of my way is okay when you drive a tank!"

I would endorse what Robert has suggested and believe the Police vehicle only had its running lights on, prior to the crash, and only after the incident did it put its headlights on. To me this is a VERY big no, no. The Police vehicle was exceeding the speed limit and the driver should have had those flashing headlights on.


I'll defend the truck driver :devil:
John
 

jaymanek

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John, i absolutely agree with you, but all im saying is that my instincts may have caused me to make the same mistake as the police officer... im not saying im a perfect driver, just that i probably would have done the same..
 

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The video is an example of poor judgement on the copper's behalf.
So who cares whos fault? we all make mistakes your not god if your going at 140-160mph you dont have time to think and react to situations!

Going at 140-160mph with kids in the car is really not a wise choice! no matter what the weather is or what type of car you have its really dangrous.

Yes if you see a clear road and weather is cool and everything I argee with you drive fast but not stupidly fast! sorry you really dont understand the risk your sitting in a well sorted comfy car but you dont know whats going on from the outside and what could go wrong.

Take it easy on the road!:)
 

BenzedUP

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My sympathies go out to you for the loss. Accidents do happen, and I am of the opinion that road use is a dangerous and risky activity. Any loss of life is unacceptable, however the blanket "speed kills" mantra that is coming across is over simplification in extremis.



My only reason for continuing this is to ascertain why 160 is deemed more dangerous than 140, or 120, or 100, or 80, in isolation. .
why is 40mph in a 30mph zone deemed more dangrous than 30mph?
 

pammy

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Timskemp - sorry but I find your attitude to speed disturbing. We have laws in the country to try and keep people safe. The speeds you seem to enjoy bragging about if undertaken on UK public roads are obscenely excessive and that you seem to do it with your kids on the car is beyond me. Kids are a distcraction in the car you only need to have a split second distraction and that would be it. At those speeds there are often no prisoners.

Tbh - I actually question the validity of some of your claims, and no I'm not asking for evidence - far from it. Our cars may be capable of such speed, but it is not a pre-requisite that you do those speeds on public roads with so many variables that are beyond not only control but your possible knowledge.

If you wish to risk your own life that is your choice - but you do not have the right to risk anyone else's life through reckless selfish driving.
 

timskemp

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Illustrating my point, the speedo is stuck at 130mph, yet the car has made contact with a truck that would have been driving at 56mph max. Driver not driving at a speed commensurate with the conditions.

Probably survivable at 70, but would the outcome have been any different at 90, 110 or 155?

Question - anyone speak enough german to translate the vid?
 

BenzedUP

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Driver not driving at a speed commensurate with the conditions.

Say that was a nice sunny day, and somthing happend to the car which made you loose control of your car and slid into that lorry?

you simply cant say road conditions are perfect so i'll do 160mph

Some accidents just can't be avoided man and thats why if your driving sensibly you could save lives and save your own life!:) common sense!

Personally I preffer acceleration over top speed!:D
 

timskemp

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Say that was a nice sunny day, and somthing happend to the car which made you loose control of your car and slid into that lorry?
Say it was a nice sunny day, and there's trucks on the road, and I'm not confident that I could reduce my speed sufficiently in the area I can see, then I'd drive slower. There are probably less than 10 occasions in my life when I've driven at over 150mph on a public road.


you simply cant say road conditions are perfect so i'll do 160mph
You can make a judgement as to what a safe speed to use is.

Some accidents just can't be avoided man and thats why if your driving sensibly you could save lives and save your own life!:) common sense!
Agreed

Personally I preffer acceleration over top speed!:D
I like both, I do miss my Volvo.... Still the E class is serving its purpose despite being a bit slow.
 
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BenzedUP

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Doing 150 plus is somthing and doing 150 plus with kids is somthing else... :)

if you like acceleration then why get a e270 cdi why not a 320 cdi :)
 

timskemp

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Doing 150 plus is somthing and doing 150 plus with kids is somthing else... :)
I guess we'll just have to disagree, as would my wife, and the family that's travelled with us on occasions.

if you like acceleration then why get a e270 cdi why not a 320 cdi :)
Heh - I'm more town bound these days, and rarely drive outside of the UK so the 130 odd MPH top speed doesn't bother me that much. There weren't many 211 320s in my price range that didn't have silly mileage so I settled on a 270, in fact I'd have bought a 220.

UK fuel prices means that my main car is likely to be diesel for the forseeable future...
 

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:) As someone once said to me, "Whenever you dig a hole, make sure it's not so deep that you cannot get out of it!"
 

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Hi all,

Whether you agree or not that it, or is not, safe to travel, with or without kids, at 160 mph it is obvious that 'TimsKemp' and his kids are still alive and well.

We all seem to be turning into Labour MP's (who appear to need to tell others what to do). I'm certainly not applauding his actions but his judgement appeared OK as he's around to tell the tale(s)

TimsKemp's, only error, imho, was to post/boast on the forum (albeit that it increased it's length significantly).

Cheers,
 

jaymanek

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to be doing anything over 80 with anyone else in the car is just irresponsible to me.

it will be many years before it will be safe to do double that speed on a public road, simply because not everyone owns a vehcile that is capable and so most drivers will not be able to deal with other drivers doing such speeds alongside them.

end of story.
 

nick mercedes

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I notice in that video, when he's talking to the lorry driver, that he says he failed to notice a police vehicle with it's lights on.
He said earlier, before the crash, there was no need to put the lights on.
The lorry driver could have always said, since he was indicating, that flashing headlights were an indication that he was being allowed to pull out.
I know HGV's are not allowed in lane 3, but this was a rental lorry and probably had an inexperienced agency driver behind the wheel.
Surely the police car should have had his blues and twos on as he was exceeding the speed limit by almost double.
6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other I think.
Surely the lorry was approaching a roundabout and was just getting into the correct lane?

Any policeman who approach a roundabout on a bend at 130 and ignores an HGV *clearly* indicating should lose his job.
 

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