Harman Kardon - worthwhile upgrade?

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Try lossless and work youre way back from there.

The thing youve got to remember is that it was only £650. The B&O systems in the audi cars are circa 4k as are the high end burmester systems in the porsches.

I did a back to back listening test with my HK system in the W204 and the Aston martin Rapide with the B&O system ( with someone really high up in b%O no less) and while the system in the rapide sounded slightly better? The extra cash in my pocket made up for it.

What im getting at is , in OEM cost terms , you are getting a fair bang for youre buck.
The HK in my S211 is great for the money. The B+O in the Audi is mega expensive because the individual fitting in the car is so costly. Having a top end B+O at home I was disappointed with the one in the A8.
I have an A8 with the BOSE believe me the BOSE is all you need. It's excellent.
 
P.S. What would be the suggested bit rate to drop music onto the iPod then?
Ed

I have just got been playing for the last month with my W204 with Comand, HK and DAB with the media interface and the SD cards slot etc.

I rip my CDs onto my ipod at the highest rate which I think is 192 (would need to check). I have just bought an ipod classic 160gb which now just sits in the car with my entire music collection. My only complaint using the ipod is the navigation can be clumsey. If you use USB or SD cards you can activate a search which then adds an alphabet bar to the right on the screen which means you can easily go to a letter and see or the albums with that letter with the ipod you have the complete list and have to scroll down so getting to "Z" can take a little time, not a big issue but could be better. (If anyone has found a work around this with an ipod let me know)

Also dont forget if using the ipod, the ipod has a built in Equilizer in settings so you can tune the ipod to the system if desired.

I find the sound through CD, SC card or ipod through the HK system is indistinguisable which did suprise me.

The HK demo CD which comes with the car is fun. Open the doors turn on the helicopter track in 5.1 and all the neighbours started looking into the sky :D
 
only trouble is itunes only allows download at 120k/bit, but says it should sound as good as a 160k/bit MP3. This true or not and will it not sound that good on a HK system ?
 
...with the ipod you have the complete list and have to scroll down so getting to "Z" can take a little time, not a big issue but could be better. (If anyone has found a work around this with an ipod let me know)
Use the number / letter keypad on the head unit; multiple presses of the same key are necessary to reach the second or third letter on the key.
 
only trouble is itunes only allows download at 120k/bit, but says it should sound as good as a 160k/bit MP3. This true or not and will it not sound that good on a HK system ?

Again, as someone already said, crap in crap out.

I did a test before I decided on 320 and I recorded from a CD to all the bitrates down to double-digit values (92? I forget now but I didn't go any lower).

I could only really start to hear a real difference below 128 from a good quality source.

You could try them both - compare the source audio CD against a test MP3 and see if you can hear the difference.
 
Use the number / letter keypad on the head unit; multiple presses of the same key are necessary to reach the second or third letter on the key.

Thanks for this, I will check it out on my system. Will not be reunited with car until weekend so will let you know if it works. Currently working with large Dutch brewer in Amsterdam (bet you cannot guess who!), drinking far to much of the amber stuff :D
 
I've got the HK upgrade in my C220 - not a nice as your C63 but hey - and I had a courtesy C without it for 3 weeks last year. Of all the toys I have the HK upgrade is the bit I missed the most. I couldn't wait to get my car back. So yes yes yes it's worth it!!

As far as MP3 is concerned, the stuff on my hard drive sounds as good as the CD's I put in. Most of it is sampled at 192kbps but some downloaded music is at 128. I can't say I notice the difference when I'm driving.
 
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Using the dock connector is by far the best way to take a feed from the ipod. The final quality will really depend on what bit rate the music has been ripped at. I am not sure what bitrate tunes bought from itunes come at, I suspect 192kbps.

Also, the signal over the dock connector can be analogue, or the iPod can deliver a digital stream decoded by whatever it connects to.

Mercedes iPod kit: Analogue
Media Interface: I think this is digital but not 100% sure
mCar iPod interface: Digital
Dension GW500 and most other after-market interfaces: Analogue

Needless to say the digital to analogue converter in and iPod is built to a low price.

Richard
 
Anyone know what bitrate is used when you upload CDs to the music register?

Whatever it's recorded at I think. Isn't it just a transfer of data? It didn't think it did any encoding (Although it's slow enough to be doing that!)
 
Hi 10EDD,
I have the HK system in my W203 C350, and I am very satisfied with it. I agree that the 'normal' sound is not marvellous - it seems to be down under the dashboard somewhere. The DSP 'surround' processing sounds a fraction coloured on audiophile female singing voices (Chesky Rebecca Pigeon) but not objectionally so. The system has been carefully calibrated so that you can't easily drive it into distortion, so it sounds quite clean and neutral. I have even heard on some news live broadcasts various subterranean thumps and bumps as the broadcaster didn't use a high pass filter.
The Logic 7 system was originally conceived by David Greisinger of Lexicon to give the rear seat passengers a better stereo image. The loudspeaker setup is L, C, R across the dashboard, L' and R' (time delayed) for the rear doors, and 'surrounds' and a subwoofer in the rear parcel shelf.
As I said earlier, an excellent system!
regards from Down Under
David
 
I have HK on my S204, it's ok for £650 but loses a lot in comparison with other manufacturer's Logic7 systems that have perhaps better placement of speakers and an equaliser for fine tuning.

I have a 1 series with HK Logic 7 (while the 1 series did not have centre front speaker or rear surrounds, Logic 7 was achieved through time delay), and I have heard the Logic 7 system in the 3 series coupe (which does have the additional speakers and doesn't rely on delay). It really does perform well in both the BMWs, and costs about the same as the Mercedes C Class. I think this is because the mids are better placed, pretty much in line with the bottom of the steering wheel / just below the window in the doors, 2 x 8" subs under the seats, plus the equaliser.

I am a little disappointed with the Mercedes version in comparison to how it sounded in the 1 series, and really do miss the adjustability of the levels, but were I not in a position to compare I would be quite happy with the HK in my S204. The sub miles away behind you in the boot does do a really very good job for 1 x 6.5" speaker though!

Maybe part of the reason is that the S204 (C Class estate) has a much greater 'volume' for the sound to fill, but it does seem to lack mid range and is a touch bright. There just isn't enough adjustment available through the head unit to overcome this or even partially mitigate it however.

DAB is very good with the HK though, very impressed (when it has a good strong signal).

Overall, it is probably worth £650; it would cost that and more to have aftermarket kit installed. Also with factory fit systems like L7 you have the benefit of it being specifically designed with your model of car in mind and all properly 'plumbed in' at build. As a result, resonance is non existent and I haven't experienced any rattles at all. The BMW can rattle its door cards and tweeters at one or two frequencies though now it is a bit older (50k miles).

If you wanted audiophile quality kit then of course save the money and go aftermarket but if you just want something with a bit of punch over and above the stock system then it is more than acceptable!
 
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Rarely is so much b.s***, talked as when it comes to "purest sound systems". "Oh , i think there is just a tad too much treble on speaker 26 at 67mph" , when in fact the element that has to discern these subtle differences in intonation , i.e. the human ear , is invariably the same organ which , when placed in the bar of the local pub , is unable to disseminate " i think its your round ".:crazy:, get real.
 
I have the standard fit in my S212 and think it's fine, in fact I think it's very good for a car stereo.

I am what people would describe as an audiophile, but have always struggled with the phrase 'in-car hi-fi', it's always been an oxymoron to me.

In a controlled environment and taking the time to listen, then a quality hifi system will sound phenomenal, but this situation is alien to sitting in a car. The noise from the surroundings and concentration levels required for driving are not a place I would consider true hifi relevant.

I use a 32gb usb with MP3 files (320kbps) in the car and they sound fine. I find anything less is a compromise on quality.

Play the same files through the home system and it's awful. I have some digitised files I have taken from vinyl through a separate A-D converter. These files are 12288kbps (40 times larger than MP3), they do not sound as good as the original vinyl but it is close and I find this an acceptable compromise between the quality of vinyl and the simplicity of digital.

Hifi is not for all, some will think it is worth it, others will not. If you've ever dabbled in the field you will appreciate the subjectivity involved. It is common to listen lots of different items when choosing home hifi to get what suits you best and a good match between components, this flexibility is not something you have when you tick an options box. I am not saying that the HK system is not worth it, simply that it is worth listening to first - and don't listen to it in the sterile environment of a dealer showroom, drive the car on real roads to truly decide if you think it is worth it.

Regards, Neil

PS. Interesting point above about passengers, I can see some value in this as they will not have the same distractions as the driver, but since my 8 and 5 year olds will tend to watch DVDs and where headphones there's limited value for me in this aspect. If I could get them to drive and I could sit in the back....
 
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At the end of the day the HK is designed for the cars it is put in by MB so if buying a new MB it is a worthwhile option IMHO.
 
We are retrofitting HK to a W204 (a comand too) for a customer.

As a factory fit option I think its worthwhile. As a retrofit its worth it if you really like your music but it is more costly.
 
Bose

Hi:
Dont know about the HK, but I have just bought a 2003 SL with the Bose Sound upgrade and its stagering compared with the standard kit in My C220 & ML270 and I am not easily surprised, I use british Quad stuff at home with mainly Tannoy speakers.
 
I've been provided with a new E coupe while my car is having a new TFT screen fitted (the last one failed!) and again find the standard system on this much richer in sound to the HK on my car. This will give me a chance to play further and then put the two back to back when I get my car back as the general consensus from people who clearly know more than I do is that the system is worthwhile.
 
I am disappointed with the HK, having owned a BMW with its top of the range Sound system, the mercedes sounds like my mini in comparison.
 
I have the HK option in the 63
and have had it previously in an Eclass
and a while back a version of it in a BMW

i think its an improvement but
road noise etc will have a major effect certainly in a c63
the source is important something ripped from you tube might sound awful in comparison to a high quality CD - i find ipod/i phones not great, plus i believe one gets used to a particular sound so you may be not fully appreciating it
of course if you cant hear the difference dont buy it -
personally i find DAB radio the best way to spend money on ICE as i like to listen to talk sport five live and Jazz fm

money spent on hifi is best spent at home imo

oh ...it needs turning up to get the best out of it again imo
 
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