Has our definition of "High Quality" changed?

[The Boss]

Just a question....

but like, we talk about the high quality of yesteryear and we talk about how the new cars are high quality..

but what is high quality today? the fact it feels soft and spongy? the fact it has design flair? the fact the screws stay in place for longer?

I dunno, but admitedly, the interiors of modern cars are cosier and softer feeling, but is the quality the same?

I know mercs have improved but have they excelled past the quality of the 90's in any context?

cheers!

 

[J400uk]

It depends really. For some people quality is defined in the solidity and how well put together the vehicle is (think W210), but for others its the soft-touch of the dashboard and the feeling of the leather seats etc.

I think the current Mercedes range is very very good in terms of both the above criteria. However the gap has narrowed between premium brands like Mercedes and the more mainstream stuff like Ford.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Quality can be defined in all sorts of ways, and perceived in even more.

I think generally quality has improved - it must have - but there are a few major factors that influence our perception:

1. We all have more money and therefore higher expectations.
2. We look back with rose-tinted spectacles.
3. There are many more things to go wrong on a modern car!

 

[grober]

Quality is anything not made in China!

 

[horsesuitedfool]

Quality is anything not made in China!

Hope not......The current MB C Class is made in China for the chinese market

 

[nick mercedes]

I know mercs have improved but have they excelled past the quality of the 90's in any context?

People expect far more for their money, back in the '90s few MBs had leather or aircon, now all most all have.

Back then almost all the parts were made in germany by german companies, but now much of the cars is made up from parts from the same companies who supply the likes of citroen, skoda and fiat....

Plus MB's are sold on finance or lease, so they only really need to last for 3 years anyway, and then nobody cares what happens.

 

[horsesuitedfool]

Plus MB's are sold on finance or lease, so they only really need to last for 3 years anyway, and then nobody cares what happens.

You could finance cars in the 90s too......!

 

[grober]

Hope not......The current MB C Class is made in China for the chinese market

So would you buy a Mercedes made in China?
I've just thought of another sweeping generalisation of quality ----- any company with a customer service centre that's not based in Mumbai India.

 

[wemorgan]

Quality is anything not made in China!

There's some truth in that.

I know that some European cars originally made on European assembly lines with high levels of automation, when then made in China they are hand welded together. The number and location of those welds will vary depending what he ate for breakfast.

 

[bpsorrel]

I think "perceived" quality has improved, for example soft feel plastics and leather (well, part leather in most cases these days) upholstery etc. But, the days of "money no object" quality such as the famous over-engineered MBs I think have gone. Now the bean-counters have a stronger say in how cars are made, we'll never know true quality like we used in the "quality" or "prestige" cars of yesteryear. I'll give you another example, I'm currently driving a 2002 model Bentley Arnage which I expected to exude quality from every bolt, but actually, it's not THAT good, bearing in mind how much it cost new! And - believe it or not - the alloys have serious corrosion!! On a £200K car that's only 7 years old!

 

[Mike44]

In my view mechanical / build quality is harder to measure in todays world. The gap between say a Ford and a Mercedes has closed dramaticaly since the early '90's. There is no such thing as a 'bad' car in terms of reliability nowadays, just those that are less desirable to own and drive.

So, a mordern definition of quality should perhaps be about perceptions and image. You still turn up in a Ford but arrive in a Merc!

 

[Dryce]

but like, we talk about the high quality of yesteryear and we talk about how the new cars are high quality..

but what is high quality today? the fact it feels soft and spongy? the fact it has design flair? the fact the screws stay in place for longer?

The criteria that I'm aware of (as opposed to subconscious) when I'm in a vehicle are:

1) Lack of rattles / vibrations

2) Smoothness / no extraneous noises

3) Tactile - switch movements, internal material, solidity

4) Implicit comfort - eg. how intrusive is the heating/aircon

The above are essentially ambient.

Then there's technical aspects. Whether or not the vehicle has things like ESP and SBC. In my case I use SBC a lot in urban driving. If I end up in a vehicle that doesn't have it then I miss it. I feel less happy in a car without ESP these days.

 

[Mudster]

People now, expect something for nothing. This is an inherent problem in the UK which is getting worse.

The idea that a company may actually make a "profit" is simply irrelevant, they should simply exist to supply goods to customers at cost price and nothing else.

Ok so I'm being a little extreme, but that's the top and bottom of it.

I have a customer at the moment building three large houses in Ascot, she wants a really high quality expensive marble throughout and won't budge on quality.

I've given her the price and it's too expensive..she keeps coming back saying she wants it, but it's too expensive and I need to do it cheaper. I've explained the price I've provided is as low as goes, any cheaper than that and it's no longer financially viable for me to provide the order. Still she tries, to a point where this morning I had to tell her to stop wasting my time and go away....she actually can't afford what she wants....that's not my problem, that's hers.

This is the issue, people have expectations greater than the amount they are willing to pay. Everything these days is made/produced to a budget, and that's it.

The only people that seem happy to pay for genuine craftsmanship are the Americans (which has always puzzled me).

 

[mattc]

I have a customer at the moment building three large houses in Ascot, she wants a really high quality expensive marble throughout and won't budge on quality.

I've given her the price and it's too expensive..she keeps coming back saying she wants it, but it's too expensive and I need to do it cheaper. I've explained the price I've provided is as low as goes, any cheaper than that and it's no longer financially viable for me to provide the order. Still she tries, to a point where this morning I had to tell her to stop wasting my time and go away....she actually can't afford what she wants....that's not my problem, that's hers.

Let me guess though Mud; she will still expect purchasers of the 3 houses to pay top price. when she next calls (you know she will) ask her if she will sell you one of her houses for cost? Might shut her up. Good on you for sticking to your guns.

 

[Dryce]

This is the issue, people have expectations greater than the amount they are willing to pay. Everything these days is made/produced to a budget, and that's it.

There is also an assumption that there are high margins that can be cut.

I think to an extent this reaction/assumption is down to the likes of double glazing and other home improvement sales companies who go in high and then successively offer discounts down to a final price depending how stubborn the customer is.

The only people that seem happy to pay for genuine craftsmanship are the Americans (which has always puzzled me).

This sort of thing varies by market sector. eg. US cars are not normally reputed for high quality finish.

 

[Smatt]

Maybe consumerism has gone too far...
But, I think (if it has) this is because consumers have got wise to the fact that so many businesses are trying to make a fast buck & in many cases ripping off the consumer.
For this reason, I feel that the credit crunch has had many positive effects as it has reduced numbers of businesses in saturated areas of the market such as estate agents, plus both consumers & businesses have been forced to review how much value for money a product gives.

One does have to pay for quality, but the law of diminishing returns invariably applies.

Personally, I would always rather pay more for quality, but I will also ask if the 'price' can be reduced at all. Items have been haggled over since time began, so why can't we now?

 

[Dryce]

Let me guess though Mud; she will still expect purchasers of the 3 houses to pay top price.

That's business. Any subcontractor faces this pressure. At the moment there are people taking on work at uneconomic levels simply to get cashflow on people who would otherwise be idle. Everybody is trying it on.

 

[Smatt]

Everybody is trying it on.

Obviously a generalisation but this will equally apply to consumers AND the businesses!

 

[verytalldave]

Its a subjective measurement and as such the answer will vary for every individual and can therefore never be correct or incorrect.

My opinion is that quality, generally for cars has improved greatly over the past 30 or 40 years.
Even the ultimate cars such as Rolls Royces and Bentleys are now so much better in all respects.
As you would hope and expect.

As a further example very few people actually bought their televisions 30 years ago because of poor reliability. It was much better to rent.
How many people rent their TV's nowadays?

 

[stevieb15]

So would you buy a Mercedes made in China?
I've just thought of another sweeping generalisation of quality ----- any company with a customer service centre that's not based in Mumbai India.

I've always thought companys which needed customer service departments are bad companies anyway irrespective where the department is based