Have I been knobbed?

[neilrr]

Over the last week the radiator light on my '89 2.6 auto has been coming on. The coolant level did drop by about 2 inches after topping up, but there was still coolant clearly visible in the expansion tank and the car wasn't running hot. It was booked in for a 12K service today so I just kept an eye on it.

I used the car to go to Windsor Races last night and was stuck in a crawling traffic jam for about 30 mins. The temp rose higher than normal but went no where near the red.

Today I brought it to the independent I use. He was busy signing in other customers so I checked the expansion tank to see if there was any difference. The COOLANT (I emphasise the word coolant), acid greeny yellow in colour, was 2 inches low but apart from that all was well.

Get the call to pick the car up this p.m. "Any surprises?" I ask. "Yes, the ATF is mixing with the coolant in the rad. A new rad is needed." I go over to pick up the car and the expansion tank is now full of bright red ATF. I say how can this be, when I checked it this morning it was full of coolant? Nothing red at all.

They don't know what happened. No idea. The mechanic who worked on it said the expansion tank was full of ATF when he opened the bonnet. They say the rad has a small leak (hence the drop in level) anyway so I'd need a new rad in any case. In fact, lucky me, I have two problems which can be fixed with one new rad.

Apart from the timing being amazing, in that the expansion tank filled up with ATF in the time between me leaving the car & the guy opening the bonnet, there was water and ATF in the "dimple" on the top of the expansion tank and splashes of something oily below the ex. tank. They said they added no fluids.

I KNOW there was no ATF in the expansion tank when I dropped it off. I checked the fluid level on the garage's forecourt while other customers were being dealt with. I can understand the thing breaking and I'd accept that if they'd told me it happened on a road test, but to tell me it was like that when they opened the bonnet is just not believable.

It is especially not believable, I've just noticed, because the service was carried out at 80,290 (from the invoice) and the mileage is now 80,305. I live 5 miles away, which means THEY ROAD TESTED MY CAR FOR 10 MILES AFTER DISCOVERING THE FLUIDS WERE MIXING.

Should I give a big sigh, light a ciggie then roll over and fall asleep? After all, I feel like I've been rogered good and proper.

What do you think?

 

[shrekky]

I would be asking for the old radiator back,and its your right to ask for parts taken off to be returned.then i would suggest you have it tested by an independant radiator specialist.
Did they replace the ATF ?................because reason would say,that if ATF was getting into the water,that water would get in to the ATF.because like any oil it is affected by water,and cant believe for 1 second that only ATF flowed one way and no water the other way.
Definitely doesn't sound right.would be asking serious questions like,who drove it ?.and why ? and if they replaced the ATF,and if not then why not ?
It sounds more like someone in that garage screwed up and they wellied you for it.

 

[neilrr]

The radiator HASN'T been replaced yet. I got the car back with everything intact and the expansion tank full of fresh, red ATF.

I'm wondering how the ATF got into the coolant when there was none there when I left the car.

I also want to know why they'd drive the car in that condition.

 

[neilrr]

Never underestimate the stupidity factor!

An update.

I went back to the garage yesterday, approaching the owner in an "I'm baffled" rather than a more confrontational manner. He too seemed to be genuinely baffled. We went over what had happened and he couldn't come up for an explanation of how ATF had moved from the AT while the car was parked on his forecourt. I asked why the car was driven with ATF & coolant mixed in the expansion tank and he said the distance they drove and the manner in which they drove wouldn't have harmed the gearbox. Not completely sure about that one, but in the end it wasn't an issue.

When I got home a couple of hours later there was a message on the machine. He'd talked to his staff again and it turns out that the 15 year old work experience kid who'd started the day before had gone above and beyond the call of his duties and taken it upon himself to do more than checking tyres, washing cars and hoovering interiors. He had seen the coolant level in my car was a couple of inches low and topped it up, using ATF instead of antifreeze.

The bloke who'd actually worked on the car hadn't added any fluids and hadn't seen the kid under the bonnet. There was already ATF in the expansion tank when he started working on the car so figured the ATF cooler in the rad had blown.

As I said, I've used this garage for 6 years and had been happy with them. The owner really does know his stuff and the other two full time employees have been there longer than I've been using them in one case and three years in the other. I got an email from a member of the MBOC in the area today who posts on another BB, who, not knowing which garage I had used, had nothing but the highest praise for them and uses them for his cars. I frequently see Mercede-Benz Owners Club tax disk holders on cars at this garage.Their hourly rate is low (£40ish) but in line with other independents operating from quite basic premises.

They have offered to take the car in on Monday to do the rad at a reduced rate as a sign of goodwill and coolant flush free (as you'd expect). I think it was an honest mistake.

Incidentally, I've found a radiator specialist who will re-core the rad in copper with a 12 mth/unlimited mileage guarentee, giving a 35% increase in efficiency he says, for £90 + VAT. They've been in business 20 years and do a lot of work on lorries and heavy construction equipment. The cheapest price I've been quoted for a new after-market one is $150 + VAT.

Anyone ever had one re-cored before?

Many thanks to everyone for their contributions to this thread.

 

[marc777]

Glad the truth was out. Well done.

The only potential issue with the rad recore is time off the road - if its the same as having the new one fitteD i'd go for the recore - provided increased efficiency doesn't keep the engine too cold.........I am assuming increased efficiency is a good thing !

Marc

 

[pepper&boulou]

Incidentally, I've found a radiator specialist who will re-core the rad in copper with a 12 mth/unlimited mileage guarentee, giving a 35% increase in efficiency he says, for £90 + VAT. They've been in business 20 years and do a lot of work on lorries and heavy construction equipment. The cheapest price I've been quoted for a new after-market one is $150 + VAT.

Anyone ever had one re-cored before?

Your luck I was quoted nearly £400 for a recore for my E300D, got a rad from ECP for £89.99

 

[janner]

Did they actually confirm that the radiator is faulty and if so, how?
They assumed that ATF in the coolant means duff radiator but if that isn't the case maybe your leak is elsewhere?
Just a thought.

If it is the rad, buy a new one.

 

[shrekky]

It sounds more like someone in that garage screwed up and they wellied you for it.

My instincts were tellingme this^^^^
Glad you got it sorted neil,and i know i seem more cynical than others,maybe because that i have worked for stealerships,3 actually,and quit to go work elsewhere because of the stunts i saw being pulled,my conscience wouldn't let me work there any longer,especially when i told management and nothing was done.