Having a little trouble with my maths.

NOMONEYBUTAMERC

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If I recall correctly , the unemployment figure for the U.K. was recently quoted as being around 2 million. ( always feel these are scandalously lower than actual numbers).
No wonder I do not have a lot of money , as it would appear I am badly lacking in simple maths skills. Official figures show that there are almost 4 million households with at least one unemployed adult of working age. Should I take from these two figures that the average unemployed person has two homes ? If thats the case , why have I been stupid enough to work , without being unemployed since 1968 , when I left school at 16 ?
Setting aside the fact that of the 4million households , there must be at least some with two or more non - working adults , where do they get the unemployment figures from ?
And would it not be comparatively easy to take the number of legal-status adults in the U.K. , deduct the number of people paying N.I. contributions , students , and registered disabled, leaving the true number of people that are actually unemployed ? Or am I just being too simplistic? What do you think??:confused::confused:
 

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It all depends how you define "unemployed", and for what purpose. Your suggested calculation would indeed be too simple, as it would class as unemployed such people as housewives/husbands, those who have retired early and those with private means.

Bear in mind also that governments tend to massage the unemployment figures by placing people on various schemes or benefits other than Jobseeker's Allowance - or, dare I say, by encouraging them to enter higher education.
 
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NOMONEYBUTAMERC

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Just to clarify , 4 million households where NO ONE works , irrespective of whether they are husbands/wives or early retired. So thats a minimum of 4million , probably closer to 5 or 6 million surely ? And fancy suggesting that governments would massage the figures!!! Shame on you :D
 

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Apart form Statistic's usual quirks (I should know - I studies it many years ago), there are quite a few definitions for 'unemployed'.

Firstly, what do you consider working age? 16? 18?

Secondly, do you count people with disability, or partial disability (i.e. can only do very certain jobs)? Do you count carers who care for a member of their family?

Do you count 'housewifes'? Do you count single mothers?

What about people who took early retirement, at say, 50? they would be 'unemployed of working age'.

What about students? And part time student? And student in gap year?

And what about people who work for cash, perhaps manual labourer or illegal car traders etc, who prefer to define themselves in surveys as 'unemployed' in order not

Most people's image of an 'employed person' mainly consists of two types: the chronic non-worker who's always on benefits just as every one in his neighbourhood is, and the honest welder that was lost his job when Rover closed down and can't find anyone that will employ him at the age of 48...

But when you send out forms or just collect data and feed it into a computer all kind of strange things can happen.
 

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NOMONEYBUTAMERC;1280823 And would it not be comparatively easy to take the number of legal-status adults in the U.K. said:
HMG has no idea how many 'legal status' adults are in the UK. They can only estimate.

Not everybody in employment pays NI.

It's not simple to define 'unemployed' either.

Government tends to use the figures receiving specific benefits. That's straightforward but only gives part of the picture.

There are people who will be unemployed but ineligible to claim benefits,

Equally there will be people 'unemployed' by your measure but who have no need to work.

Then there's the black economy.

So if you want anything above and beyond the official figures you're sticking your finger in the air and making some kind of guess.
 

markjay

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NI is extremely unfair as tax. It is called National Insurance, but there is no link between the 'premium' and the 'pay out'. People pay NI contributions based on their salary, but get back fixed amount regardless. Someone who pays £20 a year in NI contributions will not be impressed with £13.50 per day Statuary Sick Pay (or whatever the going rate is), for example.

The result is that many people who are able to, choose to have an income comprising of dividends. If the do so, they will not pay any NI.

There are others examples of people whose income is not PAYE so pay no NI (e.g. Landlords, private investors).

In addition, if you remember the Home Office fiasco from 3 years ago, where people who were not eligible to work in the UK ended-up employed as security guards through contractors, you will also remember that NI said at the time that an NI number is simply a methods to collect NI contribution but is not a certificate of eligibility to work. So not everyone who pays NI is a legal immigrant or even has a valid Visa.
 

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The result is that many people who are able to, choose to have an income comprising of dividends. If the do so, they will not pay any NI.

There are others examples of people whose income is not PAYE so pay no NI (e.g. Landlords, private investors).

In addition, if you remember the Home Office fiasco from 3 years ago, where people who were not eligible to work in the UK ended-up employed as security guards through contractors, you will also remember that NI said at the time that an NI number is simply a methods to collect NI contribution but is not a certificate of eligibility to work. So not everyone who pays NI is a legal immigrant or even has a valid Visa.
What that has to do with this discussion I don't know, but everybody pays some NI contribution, even non-PAYE pay and those receiving dividends as part of their payment.

Back to the O/p.

Some people don't show as unemployed because they are not claiming benefit and are not actively seeking work.

As long as the method of calculation has been constant, then the numbers are valid.

Also back to the O/p.

in answer to your question about what do we think......You're just having a rant...!!
 

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...Not everybody in employment pays NI...

What that has to do with this discussion I don't know, but everybody pays some NI contribution, even non-PAYE pay and those receiving dividends as part of their payment....

I was merely elaborating on Dryce's point... :D

However I am pretty sure that I do not pay NI on the dividends proportion of my income.:confused:
 

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However I am pretty sure that I do not pay NI on the dividends proportion of my income.:confused:

Which as you know isn't 100% of your income, therefore you and all other dividend claimants do indeed pay NI.

Just to clear up any confusion. :)
 

Dryce

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What that has to do with this discussion I don't know, but everybody pays some NI contribution, even non-PAYE pay and those receiving dividends as part of their payment.

In employment you don't pay below the LEL.

If your income is soley from investment and savings income then you don't have to pay NI (but you can do so voluntarily).
 

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