All my recent trips to the US have been on 777s ... wouldn't personally hesitate to fly on one again. You're far more risk driving to the airport
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mark.t
Banned
both engines, lack of power ,same time .... could there have been extra forces at work here ...... say a small hand held device that could interfere with the landing sequences......they do say electronic equipment may interfere , so what about (signal blocker) (virus) that was was uploaded which may interfere with the aircraft on landing at a point in the procedure .....so what about a intentional testing of such a device by unruly activists ......just a conspiracy theory...too while away the long hours
Silestanix
Active Member
Cause was an electrical failure related to the engines; saw the whole thing unfold from Gate 14 at my terminal (T4); needless to say, the co-pilot did a brilliant job, problems started going over Feltham. The plane landed 10-11 degrees off angle to the right, co-pilot managed to stop the plane pretty quickly by lodging it on the grass. The wheels and bits broke off like parts off a lego plane... 
It was mainly the many business passengers who thought it was just a very cr*p landing; they didn't notice anything bad until the fire services evacuated the plane. We were briefed on it this morning, I had to give a witness statement of events, they saw me on CCTV watching it all happen from the gate; was offered councilling but refused.
Passengers on the plane were in pretty good spirits considering what happened, most were thankful towards the pilots and crew and enjoyed the Duty Free shopping with discount, shops, and the passenger care and hospitality suite. Other passengers who were in the terminal clapped as the passengers and crew from the plane came back into the terminal...luckily no press and media are allowed there, because we keep them out, haha.
Manager offered overtime so we could clear the backlog of passengers from yesterdays flights...needless to say I obliged and did 8 hours overtime (double shift!), did my usual security officer duties, and went to help out many passengers who were feeling awful after sleeping at the airport etc.
To the right of the picture, about 50-100M, is the car park where most T4 staff park their cars...I had the whole row next to the fence to myself today, completely empty, people are still shaken up by yesterday's events to park there.
Could have been worse...luckily it wasn't.
It was mainly the many business passengers who thought it was just a very cr*p landing; they didn't notice anything bad until the fire services evacuated the plane. We were briefed on it this morning, I had to give a witness statement of events, they saw me on CCTV watching it all happen from the gate; was offered councilling but refused.
Passengers on the plane were in pretty good spirits considering what happened, most were thankful towards the pilots and crew and enjoyed the Duty Free shopping with discount, shops, and the passenger care and hospitality suite. Other passengers who were in the terminal clapped as the passengers and crew from the plane came back into the terminal...luckily no press and media are allowed there, because we keep them out, haha.
Manager offered overtime so we could clear the backlog of passengers from yesterdays flights...needless to say I obliged and did 8 hours overtime (double shift!), did my usual security officer duties, and went to help out many passengers who were feeling awful after sleeping at the airport etc.
To the right of the picture, about 50-100M, is the car park where most T4 staff park their cars...I had the whole row next to the fence to myself today, completely empty, people are still shaken up by yesterday's events to park there.
Could have been worse...luckily it wasn't.
OP
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grober
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Schie*e!!
misposted
misposted
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OP
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grober
MB Master
Heard this morning on the radio water had been found in the fuel???? Can't find any other reference to this at the moment so do't know if its speculation or fact?
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grober
MB Master
Schie*e!!
Since this is a Mercedes forum I just thought I would share this little clip of Mercedes first attempts to demonstrate their brake by wire system. Somehow it 's all the better for being in German. You will have to wait for a couple of mins of a German "MEDIA PERSONALITY" to get to the best bit. Schie*e says it all really. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0yX36dlcyA
Since this is a Mercedes forum I just thought I would share this little clip of Mercedes first attempts to demonstrate their brake by wire system. Somehow it 's all the better for being in German.
You will have to wait for a couple of mins of a German "MEDIA PERSONALITY" to get to the best bit. Schie*e says it all really. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0yX36dlcyA
Dieselman
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Is that from the fire services dousing the plane after the crash though?
Silestanix
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Grober; the water that was found was Firefighters foam, it contaminated the fuel as the plane was being doused in foam (Hinted at by Dieselman, lol).
Reports saying 'there was fuel seen pouring from the wings/fuselage/etc are true...but fairly simply explained, maybe even obvious. The plane hit the ground That hard that it made the windows vibrate from where I was, the impact also made the wings move up and down (as they would do).
We've got to remember that, whilst a plane's wings are strong...they aren't made of concrete, and great force like the plane hitting the surface That hard, is enough to make the wings go up and down, putting stress on rivets/joins/panels, causing the splitting/breaking the fuel tanks/pipes in the wings, making fuel pour out. The wings were damaged by the accident, again, obviously fuel will pour out. If fuel had poured out before it had hit the ground, I know for sure that the fuel would be all over the staff cars, and the car park itself. There was none reported or found on anyones car or the car park, even near mine, parked near the fence only 10's of feet from the runway and accident site.
It's all speculation as to whether water in the fuel caused the accident or not. The engines themselves don't lose power that easily, it has to be a pretty bad fault like a fairly decent amount of water contaminating the fuel to render the fuel useless, or an electrical fault. The smallest thing that can kill an engine is a pigeon/bird messing up the insides of the engine as it goes through the engine & turbines themselves.
*Just incase anyones wondering, I've been told the technical stuff by a BA Aircraft engineer who I know at work*
Reports saying 'there was fuel seen pouring from the wings/fuselage/etc are true...but fairly simply explained, maybe even obvious. The plane hit the ground That hard that it made the windows vibrate from where I was, the impact also made the wings move up and down (as they would do).
We've got to remember that, whilst a plane's wings are strong...they aren't made of concrete, and great force like the plane hitting the surface That hard, is enough to make the wings go up and down, putting stress on rivets/joins/panels, causing the splitting/breaking the fuel tanks/pipes in the wings, making fuel pour out. The wings were damaged by the accident, again, obviously fuel will pour out. If fuel had poured out before it had hit the ground, I know for sure that the fuel would be all over the staff cars, and the car park itself. There was none reported or found on anyones car or the car park, even near mine, parked near the fence only 10's of feet from the runway and accident site.
It's all speculation as to whether water in the fuel caused the accident or not. The engines themselves don't lose power that easily, it has to be a pretty bad fault like a fairly decent amount of water contaminating the fuel to render the fuel useless, or an electrical fault. The smallest thing that can kill an engine is a pigeon/bird messing up the insides of the engine as it goes through the engine & turbines themselves.
*Just incase anyones wondering, I've been told the technical stuff by a BA Aircraft engineer who I know at work*
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Corrado
Active Member
[/quote]
It may be elsewhere too, but fuel contamination was in this speculation by 777 pilots:
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ots-are-saying-about-the-ba-777-accident.html
Rich
It may be elsewhere too, but fuel contamination was in this speculation by 777 pilots:
http://www.flightglobal.com/article...ots-are-saying-about-the-ba-777-accident.html
Rich
Dieselman
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Would both sets of engines be drawing from the same tank at the same time?
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grober
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I guess the only way to determine that water was a cause of engine failure would be an analysis of the fuel in the engine supply lines which I imagine would be untouched by any firefighting foam/water. I would agree that if the tanks were all ruptured then it would be almost impossible to deduce anything from them following the accident and subsequent foam application.
Dieselman
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Assuming it was water contamination, how many other planes filling from the same bowsers have shown contamination?
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grober
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Bet there are some guys feverishly dipping tanks in Beijing as we speak.
Does the plane land anywhere else on the way?? Corrado's link made an interesting read.
Silestanix
Active Member
The supply lines aren't badly damaged form what rick told me; we'll see I guess init grober.
Dieselman; There's 3 fuel tanks in the 777, one in each wing, and one in the centre of the plane, the fuselage part itself. The centre one's used first, but any tank and any fuel pump, L/R/Centre can supply any engine at any time, either both from one tank like the beginning, when the centre tank is used first; or 1 tank per engine, like one for the left, one for the right.
Corrado; that's a pretty interesting link...I wonder if the pilots involved have read it...Nice car too btw!
Dieselman
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when the centre tank is used first; or 1 tank per engine, like one for the left, one for the right.
That's what I thought, so it would take both wing tanks to be contaminated to the same level for both engines to stop simultaniously.
I doubt that could happen, if so, I'll get the guy who filled them to pick me six numbers between 1 and 49...
Also I would bet there is a water sensor inside the tank. If they can fit them on diesel cars, I'm sure Boeing could manage to fit a couple on a 777.
Silestanix
Active Member
That's what I thought, so it would take both wing tanks to be contaminated to the same level for both engines to stop simultaniously.
I doubt that could happen, if so, I'll get the guy who filled them to pick me six numbers between 1 and 49...
Also I would bet there is a water sensor inside the tank. If they can fit them on diesel cars, I'm sure Boeing could manage to fit a couple on a 777.
Yep, there's 2 water sensors in each tank from what I know; hence the water in fuel story being pure speculation...
Got me thinking though, what'd happen if I threw a bottle of evian into my car's petrol tank...?
Fireworks?
Dieselman
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You'd get fit pushing it......
scumbag
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just as a point, the fuel that is uploaded to planes will be checked for water contamination everyday, and possibly more often.
It is very unlikley indeed that the fuel on this plane was contaminated with water.
UK rules mean the flight crew must apply a certain amount of power to the engines once the approach is made, thats the point at which it descends beneath 1000ft. So it would seem that by the 2 mile point, or 600ft, the crew will have realised it wasn't doing what it should have been.
Thats what the AAIB will be looking for. Could be a numerous things that caused it. However, as BA, Boeing and RR are also on the case, it will be found.
It is very unlikley indeed that the fuel on this plane was contaminated with water.
UK rules mean the flight crew must apply a certain amount of power to the engines once the approach is made, thats the point at which it descends beneath 1000ft. So it would seem that by the 2 mile point, or 600ft, the crew will have realised it wasn't doing what it should have been.
Thats what the AAIB will be looking for. Could be a numerous things that caused it. However, as BA, Boeing and RR are also on the case, it will be found.
marcos
MB Enthusiast
I think they did realise something was wrong.
My wifes uncle was onboard the plane and has a shattered shoulder where the overhead containment broke and smashed down onto him and his business partner was knocked out and has a fractured skull, not a bad fracture but still nasty. There were lots of other little injuries he said but at least no one was hurt badly.
Yup they went from "3 minor injuries" to "16 injuries with 1 serious". Still a good result though.
