Help _ Do I now own it or not?

[harveyn]

Last Sunday I went to view a car advertised at £38,000 privately and agreed to buy it for £36,000. I left a £100 deposit and signed a letter saying I would buy it without the cherished plate. I inturn received a receipt stating that the seller had agreed to sell the car at the price, less the £100 deposit.
I said I would wire monies later in the week with the view to collect next Friday.

I next received a call on Monday saying that other people had enquired about the car and that they were prepared to pay the asking price unseen! Did I want to pay more for it? I replied that I thought we had already agreed terms.

A friend later rings posing as a potential buyer and is told it is still for sale!

He relays this to me and I wire £5,900 to show I am obviously serious and ring the buyer and tell him as much, he says great and doesn't mention that he is still talking to other interested parties.

I then wire the remaining £30,000 and attach a scan of his receipt to remind him of what he has signed. I have asked for an email confirmation, but have yet to receive anything.

Yesterday he went to his local DVLA office to take try and put his cherished plate on retention. They say it might take a week and that he shouldn't part with the vehicle until the transfer has gone through. This is a good excuse for him delaying the handover. As he is some 2 hours away I am understandably nervous.

Where do I stand?

Many thanks

Harvey

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Harvey. Not much help, but I understand your concerns. You were very trusting to pay the whole amount before collecting the car.

Whilst the private plate may easily be off the car within a week, the replacement V5 logbook will almost certainly take considerably longer than a week - about 7 weeks when I did it last year, but that did span the Christmas break. Looks like it may be a tense time for a while.

Can you ask him (or your bank?) to refund the last payment in view of the delay? That might help minimise your exposure should it go belly up.

If you have copies of the receipt, and corresponding payments then in the event of a dispute - fingers crossed it won't get that far - you can demonstrate that you paid for the vehicle.

I'll keep 'em crossed for you...

 

[bolide]

It will take a week minimum for the cherished transfer to complete and, if there are delays, you may be left without the car for much longer than that. DVLA will not divulge details of the transfer to you so you're in the hands of the vendor

If you've paid the full amount agreed and have a receipt to say that the car is yours once that specified amount has been paid then I'd say the car is morally - and probably legally - yours

If the vendor is two hours away, has the car and the money and you have any doubts at all about the transaction I'd take legal advice, as opposed to Forum advice, asap

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[MangoMan]

I'm not sure Harvey, but all I know is, is that unless it is a registered reputable dealer, I would have handed over the cash with one hand and taken the keys with the other.

I'm sorry to say it, but if I were you I would be 'Sh***ing' myself somewhat. What do they say; 'Possesion being 9 points of the Law'. ?

Personally I would want ALL my money back until 'Hand-Over' can take place, even if it means losing the car.

'Good-Luck'.

 

[stats007]

The legal owner and registered keeper are two different things. If you have signed a contract and paid the car is yours so take it away.

 

[DITTRICH]

Are you saying that after you had confirmation that the seller was still offering the car to buyers after you had paid £100 then you still wired the seller £5,900? And then another £30,000? Your faith in human nature is much more than mine! What was your friend's opinion? (the one who phoned for you). More importantly what exactly does the note you received say? If it is an invoice for £36,000 which says I sell you the car for £36,000 and will deliver the car in exchange for cleared funds in my account then legally you are probably okay **BUT** practically you may well be f****d. The seller has the car and the money and can hold you to ransom.
Les

 

[Benzowner]

Harvey, not all people are crooks, but there are some out there. I have just bought a car from a dealer and needed my number plate transfered and the whole thing was completed in a week. The DVLA will not rush or be rushed. Just keep in touch with the seller

 

[harveyn]

Thanks for all the comments.

The further payments were made because my friend thought that the buyer probably didn't think I was a 100% commited as I had only left a small deposit. He thought a sizeable payment would confirm I was seious.
By paying in full I should be the legal owner, but not the registered keeper.
My receipt say ' I **** *** agree to sell the *** registered **** for £36,000 less the £100 deposit. The number plate is not included in the sale. Dated and signed by the vendor.

Many thanks

 

[glojo]

Can the transfer of registrations not be done at a local office whilst you wait?

I cannot understand why you have parted with the full amount before getting the vehicle, but I hope everything works out for you.

Regards,
John

 

[harveyn]

Hi Glojo, The DVLA office wouldn't do it while he waited, but they did confirm to me that he had been in the previous day to submit the paperwork.
I paid for the car in full because I wanted to be the legal owner and I agreed on the day that I would transfer funds prior to collection, as not all bamkers drafts are genuine and I originally planned to collect it on Friday evening when the banks would be closed.

 

[neilrr]

Did you check the mileage when you bought it? Is he still tooling around in 'your' car?

I don't understand why you paid him any more money at all when he's trying to sell the car you bought to other people.

 

[HughJarse]

Harvey think Id pop to a local garage, thell them your tale and that youll pay them either to recover the vehicle or use their trade plates, and then I would go an pick it up.
The physical vehicle is yours afaic

 

[harveyn]

I paid for it in full in order to ensure he had no reason to think I wouldn't fullfill myside of the bargain.
I think he is now regretting having accepeting my offer, as he probably could have got more, but neither of us were to know at the time and I still paid a full price.
He also has not returned my calls today!

 

[MangoMan]

I'm sorry, but I do not understand why you couldn't use the car with the number plate it had until he had done the necersary with the DVLA, or at least had the car driven to you house, parked it in your yard/drive or a friends, if you haven't got and he could of taken the plates away with him, it only needs the plates on it to be driven on the public highway, not to be stored on your property.

At least you would have had the car in your possesion!

I really hope it all works out for you, but I have my reservations, especially as he seems to be avoiding you, sorry.

 

[Benzowner]

Thats a good poit Mangoman, when I picked my car up from Salisbury, my wife drove our other car home, with the same registration plate as was on the new car. I changed the plates over a couple of days later.

 

[davefef]

wow mate you got yourself in a bit of a mess here . pay a trader to pick it up on trade plates . if you have paid in full and have receipt its yours . even if you have to take all the plates off . i smell a rat somewere hope you get on ok

 

[saorbust]

At the very least go and get the keys to the vehicle. Have you now insured it in your name ? You technically own it - it could backfire.

Regarding the car - the sale clearly states the number plate is his. I'd get legal advice, insure it in case anyone hits it whilst its out of your site, or failing that put it in a lock up where its off the road and under your control. He will need the tax disc to get the number plate changed, but other than that shouldn't need access to the vehicle.

I'd also get the mileage, photo the car from every angle and get legal advice.

J.

PS. Next time pay via an escrow account not direct - would have shown the buyer the money was there, but only in his account on the permission of both of you.

 

[glojo]

Last Sunday I went to view a car advertised at £38,000 privately and agreed to buy it for £36,000. I left a £100 deposit and signed a letter saying I would buy it without the cherished plate. I inturn received a receipt stating that the seller had agreed to sell the car at the price, less the £100 deposit.
I said I would wire monies later in the week with the view to collect next Friday.

Hi Harvey,
I am worried for you and if you get the time could you keep us all updated please? You have met this person and might have a feel for why you did what you did, none of us were there, but I just know we are all keeping our fingers crossed and hoping everything works out for you.

Good luck and fingers crossed (still)

Yours sincerely,
John the worrier

 

[harveyn]

Update:

I haven't been able to reach him on the phone, but have received the following email:

Hi Harvey

The ******** past its MOT (now valid to 31.03.2008) with no reported faults.

The Inspection Notes -
3 small items were fixed yesterday;
- £1.05 for a new OBC (On Board Computer) plastic cover to be fitted
- £1.82 for a new Rubber Buffer to be fitted on the wiper blades
- £1.75 for a new Ultrasonic Alarm Bracket to be fitted
- £0 the loose Gear Knob Top/Disc has been fixed

Main Inspection Items Noted -
1. "Rear Brake Discs & Pads" Badly Corroded - new ones both sides - £*****fitted includ vat
2. "Front Bumper Under Lip Spolier" Damaged - new one £67.24 fitted includ
vat

3. Slight Corrosion to "Spoke of N/S/F Wheel" - consider refurb? £100 per
wheel - see notes
4. Front Brake "BackPlates" Corroding - £70.50 for both (+ £86.36 fitting
includ vat) - see notes
5. "Small Nik" to Rear Window Outer Rubber - £95.50 fitted includ vat - see
notes
6. "Sports Exhaust Tail Pipes" incorrect type fitted - £*****fitted
included vat - see notes

Notes -
1 & 2 should be completed - £445.00
3, 4, 5, 6 these items do not effect the running of the car, but if looking
for a Concourse Show Car then complete the items.

3. It is only 1 wheel that has some small corrosion to one spoke, all the
other wheels are in excellent condition, it is not recommended to refurb
only one wheel on one side, so either refurb both wheels on one side or all
4 wheels at the same time, although the other wheels are fine.

4. These "BackPlates" help stop dust/stones, etc going behind the wheels,
the current condition of both is OK and should last the next 20.000 to
30.000 miles until the Front Brake Discs & Pads are replaced. (I had the New
Front Brake Discs & Pads fitted at a cost of £500.08 last July 06' at 30.000
miles, I would have had the BackPlates replaced then if ******** had told
me!)......The view is that it seems expensive to change them now as the
labour cost is high at £86.36 versus the parts cost of £70.50 due to having
to remove the Brake Discs & Pads again to fit the BackPlates, so wait until
the next new set of Brake Discs & Pads are fitted


5. The Nik is not recent and only 0.5cm x 0.3cm, it seems excessive to fit a
new whole outer rubber for such a small Nik.

6. I had the current "Tail Pipes" fitted again last July 06'
by ********, they are ORIGINAL Chrome ***** Parts and cost me
£325.00!......but they are for a different model
.

Body-Work -
No accident damage seen, no new obvisous bolts or suspension struts that
would indicate any accident damage. The car has had new paintwork to some
panels, the work has been completed to a very high main dealer standard, the
painting is not recent, overall excellent condition, it is very rare to find
a *******at this age, 10 years old, that has not had any new paintwork.

Driving/Mechanical -
Best ********* driven, like new and as close to perfection as can be for a 10
year old car.

Overall -
With all the above "Items Noted" completed, close to concourse as you will
buy today.

Regards,


To which I replied:

Hi *******
Many thanks for taking the trouble to write this up. I have no trouble any of the points raised. However, would it be possible for you to give them the car sometime today? They could then do the most of the points tomorrow (at my cost obviously) and I would like to collect it from them on Friday evening?

Regarding the number plate, if your docs are not back by tomorrow, I am happy to guarantee that I will make the car available for an inspection in the unlikely event it is requested.

You can be sure of this because if the transfer doesn't go through, you won't get the V5 back, which I obviously will want you to forward when it is eventually returned.

Once the retention certificate comes back, you only need send me the new temporary registration document and tax disc for the new plate. I will have the new plates made up and then return the original tax disc to the DVLA in the prepaid envelope they include. Once you eventually receive the new V5, please forward it to me, and I will then be able to apply to put my plate on the car.

Kind regards

Harvey
P.S Presumably all the monies have hit your account. The car is already insured in my name.

He then replied:

Hi Harvey

I,m on route to ***** for a meeting, so its not possible to take car
today. Our plan is to travel to Manchester Friday until Sunday. As already
discussed I will not let the car go until the DVLA doc,s are back.

Kind Regards, *****

 

[moneyman]

I'd want my money back now and walk away

Regards

Steve