HELP - Motor Trader Advice needed

[MUGGY]

About 7 weeks ago I bought a E320 CDI for £12,000.

Today I had it serviced by my local indie and much to my dismay they tell me that both rear springs are broken and I need a new auxilliary battery. Total cost to put right approx £330. The Indy reckoned the springs had been broken for some time.

I phoned the Dealer that I bought the car from who was not greatly interested but suggested that I try to claim from the extended warranty they had flogged me. I insisted that this was their problem and I wasn't about to do battle with an insurance company when it appeared to me they had sold me the car with a pre-existing fault. I later checked the Ins. policy and suspension is not covered anyway.

The Dealer insisted that the springs would have been checked before sale and that they were fine. My contention is that nothing was checked as I have been given no pre sale check list. The fact that the wheels weren't even fully tightened tends to support my view that this Trader is somewhat slapdash. ( I thought this at the time, but I wanted the car)

I have agreed to take the car for them to inspect tomorrow but I am expecting them to try to wriggle out of their responsibilities which I believe is to replace the springs and battery.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have checked trading standards website but am still not totally sure of my ground.

Many thanks

Dave

 

[SimonsMerc]

The fact that the wheels weren't even fully tightened tends to support my view that this Trader is somewhat slapdash. ( I thought this at the time, but I wanted the car)

Bad mistake. There will always be other cars. Good luck to you, but don't expect miracles to happen...

 

[MUGGY]

Bad mistake. There will always be other cars. Good luck to you, but don't expect miracles to happen...

Other than the issues raised above I am very happy with the car so I wouldn't describe it as a bad mistake. You are right there are always other cars but I don't want to spend half my life looking for a car with the right spec. This car felt right the Trader didn't but I will if necesary take them to court to make them do the right thing.

Assuming, of course, I am right about my rights in this matter.

 

[Frank O' Phile]

Broken springs is a common fault these days, and not exclusive to Mercedes, and 7 weeks is plenty of time for them to break. I'm not passing judgement, just comment, you understand.

How many miles have you done in the car, and did you notice anything untoward during those miles?

 

[MUGGY]

I have done 5,000 miles but nothing untoward has happened to the car and the driving experience is the same as far as I can tell. My technician at the Indie garage is adamant that the springs have been broken for longer than 7 weeks.

 

[Seamster15]

Thats a lot of miles in 7 weeks.

 

[jaymanek]

As much as its easy to blame the trader, this one is definately a case where the grey area is so large I wouldnt even bother.

7 weeks and 5K is plenty enough for springs to give way.

If you are ever in doubt after buying a car from a trader, just get an MOT style look over done by a local garage.. costs next to nothing and of course the trader will be much more inclined to put things right.

 

[Ronnie]

A little bit surprised at the poor advice forthcoming from members on this thread.......fact is, you have rights under the Sale of Goods Act...basically "Not fit for purpose"...get a report from the Indy...confront the Trader, if no joy, get a letter out to the Trader spelling out your grievance and intention to take action if not resolvesd within a reasonable time...then get them in Court if they dont respond to your satifaction...

 

[flango]

Jays post is spot on, it's well into a grey area, trading standards would not even look at it and as far as court goes a magistrate would never rule in favour of the purchaser based on the facts on this thread, trust me

 

[jaymanek]

A little bit surprised at the poor advice forthcoming from members on this thread.......fact is, you have rights under the Sale of Goods Act...basically "Not fit for purpose"...get a report from the Indy...confront the Trader, if no joy, get a letter out to the Trader spelling out your grievance and intention to take action if not resolvesd within a reasonable time...then get them in Court if they dont respond to your satifaction...

you are just egging him on.

I deal with this kind of thing daily and can tell you there is a line that this case definately crosses.

If it had been a week or two and maybe 1000 miles then yes you can reasonably say that the spring was broken at the time of sale.

7 weeks later no judge could reasonably say the spring did not break after purchase.... no matter how shady the trader.

Springs, brakes, tyres, exhausts etc all have a limited life span and one can say need to be replaced periodically and so does not come under sale of goods act.

The car is still fit for purpose barring maintenance that may well be in line with the cars age and mileage

end of.

Had the engine seized 7 weeks after purchase, then yes it would be a different story.

 

[MUGGY]

Thanks for all the input.

I was under the impression that under 6 months the weight of proof is on the trader i.e. he must prove that the springs weren't broken when the sale took place.

 

[Ronnie]

you are just egging him on.

I deal with this kind of thing daily and can tell you there is a line that this case definately crosses.

If it had been a week or two and maybe 1000 miles then yes you can reasonably say that the spring was broken at the time of sale.

7 weeks later no judge could reasonably say the spring did not break after purchase.... no matter how shady the trader.

Springs, brakes, tyres, exhausts etc all have a limited life span and one can say need to be replaced periodically and so does not come under sale of goods act.

The car is still fit for purpose barring maintenance that may well be in line with the cars age and mileage

end of.

Had the engine seized 7 weeks after purchase, then yes it would be a different story.

No not "egging him on", far from it..... the "WEEK OR TWO" comment beggars belief....does not matter what the problem is...engine or otherwise, if the goods become "unfit for purpose" within a certain timescale, accepted the timescale can be a point of argument in a Court of Law, nevertheless, this certainly DOES come under the "Sale of Goods Act"...not willing to go into itemising examples as warranty terms can differ dramatically dependant on type of product,...but your contention is that the brakes, exhaust, springs and tyres could all need replacing after 1000 miles covered within a 2 week period and that you have no opportunity of recourse.....Please dont go there !!!
And as for the "No judge" comment, this it total tosh and is without substance, I would presume you and any other professional can determine if a problem of this nature is recent or not, you are sounding like the Warranty Insurer....notwithstanding the above, if the part was in such a condition, at the time of sale, that it could reasonably be determined that, by a proper PDI , it may possibly have a short life span, then this is sufficient enough.
Bottom Line, it is either fit for purpose or not and the evidence provided by the Indy would go some way to putting up a good argument...in summary the Trader may also take this view and rectify the problem before he gets involved in costly and time consuming litigation....

 

[Will]

A few observations:

5000 miles is pretty high for only 7 weeks use. Are you using this vehicle privately or for business use/hire and reward or something?

If it was a serious fault that you had suffered, then I'd say persue it if you felt that it was worth it. Springs and batteries are consumable items, and as such have a limited lifespan.

If these faults were serious, surely you'd have picked up on that before covering 5000 miles, IMHO. I think the sale of goods act does account for things such as the price paid for the goods. How old is the car? Was it cheap? Has it covered a high mileage? Wear and tear such as you mention doesn't sound unusual for an average mileage/condition second hand car.

If the faults had been reported soon after purchase ( a week or two/1000 miles etc), then I guess you could expect the garage to consider a contribution towards the costs, maybe not the full amount due to 'betterment' (brand new wear/tear items such as battery and springs etc)

Just my own personal take on it. I think I'd just pay the £330 myself.

Hope you're enjoying the car other than this minor hiccup

Will

 

[MUGGY]

I really appreciate all the input.

I am however more confused than before I posted.

The facts are

1) Car is 2004 cost £12k with 72k miles
2) I have done 4600 miles in the 7 weeks I have had the car.
3) I do use the car for work but not normally this much
4) There is no discernible difference in how the car drives
5) The faults only came to light when the car went for a B service today
6) The Indy I use is adamant that the springs have been broken for longer than 7 weeks
7) The car was poorly prepared and I would guess that no pre sale checks were made
8) Sadly I didn't arrange for the car to be checked over.
9) I do not carry any weights and have not crashed over speed humps or the like

I intend to push the Trader hard as I do feel they have probably been negligent in their lack of prearation of the vehicle for sale.

Other than the above I am delighted with the car :bannana:

BTW - Broken springs seem to be a common fault amongst other members but in my 35 years and hundreds of thousands of miles of driving I have never come across one.

 

[Will]

Useful to hear the extra info. I do still feel however that a replacement battery on a 5 year old car isn't unreasonable.

Re - the broken springs, how long do you think they were broken? When was the MOT test done?

If your mechanic is certain that they've been broken for longer than 7 weeks, just how long does he feel they have been like that?

Will

 

[BTB 500]

I'm with Will.

You've done almost half an average annual mileage in just 5 weeks (100 miles a day, every day). This is a used car, not factory fresh. How can anyone say with any certainty that the springs were broken 5000 miles ago (before you got the car) rather than 4000 miles ago (after you'd done 1000 miles in it)?

If you buy a second hand car with a limited warranty then you're taking a bit of a gamble. £330 doesn't seem a huge amount to fix - you've probably spent 3 times that on fuel so far?

By all means see if you can get something from the dealer, but I wouldn't personally consider going to court if they don't play ball.

Good luck!

 

[MUGGY]

Useful to hear the extra info. I do still feel however that a replacement battery on a 5 year old car isn't unreasonable.

Re - the broken springs, how long do you think they were broken? When was the MOT test done?

If your mechanic is certain that they've been broken for longer than 7 weeks, just how long does he feel they have been like that?

Will

I have no idea how long the springs have been broken but my mechanic reckons a considerable time given the amount of corrosion at the break point. He would not be drawn on exactly how long.

 

[MUGGY]

I'm with Will.

You've done almost half an average annual mileage in just 5 weeks (100 miles a day, every day). This is a used car, not factory fresh. How can anyone say with any certainty that the springs were broken 5000 miles ago (before you got the car) rather than 4000 miles ago (after you'd done 1000 miles in it)?

If you buy a second hand car with a limited warranty then you're taking a bit of a gamble. £330 doesn't seem a huge amount to fix - you've probably spent 3 times that on fuel so far?

By all means see if you can get something from the dealer, but I wouldn't personally consider going to court if they don't play ball.

Good luck!

I appreciate the input.

The mileage I have done is nothing to an E Class. The vast majority of the miles is on the motorway so hardly massive wear and tear. My previous S210 had 225k miles on the clock when I pranged it (no broken springs)

It's not so much the £330 that is bugging me but the whole attitude of the Trader.

If they can produce a pre sale inspection sheet then fair enough but otherwise I think they should be suggesting a resolution.

 

[Will]

Hi Muggy,

As Bill has said - best of luck trying etc, but I really don't think I'd get too worried about it.

The reason I asked about the date of the MOT test is that you would expect that if the springs were broken then it would have happened after the date of the MOT test - so hence somewhere between that date and now would be when they failed (and obviously unlikely that two would snap at once?)

Broken springs are quite common with several vehicles/manufacturers these days. I've never had a broken MB spring but I did have a front one go on a Lexus a number of years back - caused by a pothole. I think Ford and no doubt several other makes suffer from similar problems.

I just bought a new pair and had them fitted by a local garage

Will

 

[Ronnie]

Useful to hear the extra info. I do still feel however that a replacement battery on a 5 year old car isn't unreasonable.

Re - the broken springs, how long do you think they were broken? When was the MOT test done?

If your mechanic is certain that they've been broken for longer than 7 weeks, just how long does he feel they have been like that?

Will

Will....yes I fully agree with you on the fact the battery failure would not be unreasonable for a 5 year old car.....but the warranty clock STARTS when YOU make the purchase...albeit a far shorter period of warranty than a new car........the Sale of Goods Act has been the main reason most established car traders steer clear of the "clearance" (bangers) items as the "fit for purpose" issue still applies...it is either fit for purpose or not....they just trade them or shove them through the Auctions...far less hassle...