I wondered about that as well .
Although , in fairness , consumer law is broadly similar throughout the EU .
Help. Nearly new 2019 e220 estate. Reduce engine oil level message
- Thread starter Margaret
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Although , in fairness , consumer law is broadly similar throughout the EU .
Margaret , so sorry to hear you are in this position.
While I personally would be OK with a new engine , I appreciate not everyone else would be .
It is standard MB policy for replacement parts tocarry a 1 year warranty from the time of fitting , but the rest of the car should still have whatever warranty it came with .
A new engine would not normally see the odometer reset , but it should be recorded in the service history ; a genuine new engine fitted by a main dealer under warranty should not adversely affect resale price , and might actually enhance it since it will have lower miles than the original.
The new engine number should be changed on the car’s data sheet , and can also be changed on the registration document , so that shouldn’t be an issue .
You should not be in any way disadvantaged by any of this , so I would push for a decent loan car , or if you traded something in , your old car back while this work is being completed .
If you are ending up with less warranty than you ought to have had , I’d push for an extended aftermarket warranty , paid for by the dealership, as compensation for the inconvenience, at least three years .
If the new engine is trouble free for a year after fitting that should be enough to indicate it is OK .
Do take legal advice , wherever you are located , to be sure of your rights . Even though it may cost you , getting a letter from a lawyer to the dealer , setting out your legal rights , and your expectations, may be useful to motivate them to do the right thing .
While I personally would be OK with a new engine , I appreciate not everyone else would be .
It is standard MB policy for replacement parts tocarry a 1 year warranty from the time of fitting , but the rest of the car should still have whatever warranty it came with .
A new engine would not normally see the odometer reset , but it should be recorded in the service history ; a genuine new engine fitted by a main dealer under warranty should not adversely affect resale price , and might actually enhance it since it will have lower miles than the original.
The new engine number should be changed on the car’s data sheet , and can also be changed on the registration document , so that shouldn’t be an issue .
You should not be in any way disadvantaged by any of this , so I would push for a decent loan car , or if you traded something in , your old car back while this work is being completed .
If you are ending up with less warranty than you ought to have had , I’d push for an extended aftermarket warranty , paid for by the dealership, as compensation for the inconvenience, at least three years .
If the new engine is trouble free for a year after fitting that should be enough to indicate it is OK .
Do take legal advice , wherever you are located , to be sure of your rights . Even though it may cost you , getting a letter from a lawyer to the dealer , setting out your legal rights , and your expectations, may be useful to motivate them to do the right thing .
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Given that the car is so new and you have had so little use from it then I would recommend that you reject it, get a full refund and find another one closer to home. A complete engine (and the definition of complete engine has some ambiguity) and fitting will take weeks and weeks to organise (warranty authorisation, order the engine, ship from Germany etc etc) - meantime there may be arguments over the loan car - and even once you have the car back there is no guarantee that everything will be OK. Replacing the whole engine means removing and replacing many ancillary components. The quality of the finished product to you will be entirely dependent on the workmanship of the tech in the UK dealer. It is not the same as a new one from the factory imho and you are more likely to have further problems in the future - oh dear sorry the warranty has expired.
Thank you guys. So much expertise here you have been a great help. It's interesting that there are some differences of opinion on how to proceed. The car is from a UK main dealership. I would also be concerned about workmanship and certainly the quality of the fit would depend on the dedication and knowledge of the mechanic something I don't have a grasp of. Obviously they are not doing a lot of E type engine replacements and I don't fancy my car being the first one. I would kick myself in 3 or 4 years time if there was another major problem. Whilst the idea of a new engine is somewhat appealing I get the impression generally that truly skilled mechanics are few on the ground nowadays (except on here) and that a lot of reliance is given to what the computer says. I have avoided main dealers for servicing over the years as I regretfully have had one or two bad experiences. On one occasion I was told I needed brake pads and discs etc when a second non mercedes opinion found they were fine and I got several more years out of them.
It is true that getting a good garage can be something of a lottery .
If getting your money back is your preference, then a different car is certainly a way forward , and right now , with the new car market having just restarted then dealerships ought to be awash with trade ins .
I would take the contrary view that there is nothing wrong with a new engine , and you’d have to be very unlucky to have trouble with the replacement.
It really is not hard to do an engine swap and , done correctly, it should be impossible to tell .
I bought one car a few years back , then when I got the service history I found the one previous owner had the engine replaced at MB Glasgow , where the car was bought and maintained, when it reached 380,000 miles , and when I bought the car with 430,000 miles I was delighted the engine had only 50,000 miles on it ; there was nothing out of place whatsoever and the car ran faultlessly until , unfortunately it was hit and written off whilst parked .
I have also , myself , removed and replaced engines in two Mercedes and numerous Audis/VWs that I have owned down the years , as well as many many other parts . If you are careful and methodical as you work there is absolutely no reason why something will not go back exactly as it was fitted in the factory .
I would expect an engine swap would be done by an MB Master Technician , perhaps assisted by a junior , and would not anticipate problems . It would be your right to have the car independently inspected after the job .
You do have a strong case for rejection, but sometimes in practice this can be hard to achieve . And sometimes you can battle for weeks and months before resolution one way or the other .
If having the new engine fitted is a more readily available option , it might be the path of least resistance. Once given a green light , MB would ship an engine within 48 hours from Germany , but being a current model there might be one in stock in the UK . Fitting should at most take a couple of days in a properly equipped workshop if I can do it over a weekend on my drive .
If getting your money back is your preference, then a different car is certainly a way forward , and right now , with the new car market having just restarted then dealerships ought to be awash with trade ins .
I would take the contrary view that there is nothing wrong with a new engine , and you’d have to be very unlucky to have trouble with the replacement.
It really is not hard to do an engine swap and , done correctly, it should be impossible to tell .
I bought one car a few years back , then when I got the service history I found the one previous owner had the engine replaced at MB Glasgow , where the car was bought and maintained, when it reached 380,000 miles , and when I bought the car with 430,000 miles I was delighted the engine had only 50,000 miles on it ; there was nothing out of place whatsoever and the car ran faultlessly until , unfortunately it was hit and written off whilst parked .
I have also , myself , removed and replaced engines in two Mercedes and numerous Audis/VWs that I have owned down the years , as well as many many other parts . If you are careful and methodical as you work there is absolutely no reason why something will not go back exactly as it was fitted in the factory .
I would expect an engine swap would be done by an MB Master Technician , perhaps assisted by a junior , and would not anticipate problems . It would be your right to have the car independently inspected after the job .
You do have a strong case for rejection, but sometimes in practice this can be hard to achieve . And sometimes you can battle for weeks and months before resolution one way or the other .
If having the new engine fitted is a more readily available option , it might be the path of least resistance. Once given a green light , MB would ship an engine within 48 hours from Germany , but being a current model there might be one in stock in the UK . Fitting should at most take a couple of days in a properly equipped workshop if I can do it over a weekend on my drive .
SarahAnn200
Active Member
Hi Margaret, don't forget, not all cars are on the autotrader site. You might be surprised what a Mercedes dealer can find you in their network that isn't advertised anywhere
That is true , you also can look at MB approved used stock across the dealer network, but other dealers can get cars before they appear on that list .
The first step is to get them to agree to take back this car you have had trouble with ; if it is not too late to cancel the deal and get your old car back , you could then take your time and look for a replacement.
The other possibility is they might find you a better spec car , or a higher model which would normally have cost you more , and if they value you as a customer then they might do a deal on the upgrade asking you to pay less for the change than under other circumstances.
Just spent 2 hours trying to speak to someone in the dealership. No one in sales or aftercare will take my call. Very frustrating. Got an e mail reply to say they are looking at options for me and have to discuss the situation with owner of garage. Have seen another car with similiar spec at a different dealership. But I can't negotiate until I get my money back.
My guess is that they will try to make it hard for you to reject the car for a refund - so you are going to have to take a tough stance with them from the outset if that is what you want. You need to send a formal letter of rejection to the dealer principal and a request for the refund within xx days. If that does not work then I would get your solicitor on to it.
There’s no benefit having a new engine on a 1 year old/7000 mile old car. I would want money back and shop around, plenty more out there without that worry.
New cars should come with a three year warranty, and I always thought it was two years on the majority of parts (especially something major like an engine fitted by a main dealer!)
Ask for a refund, or a replacement car that you are happy with, and move on
New cars should come with a three year warranty, and I always thought it was two years on the majority of parts (especially something major like an engine fitted by a main dealer!)
Ask for a refund, or a replacement car that you are happy with, and move on
If you don’t get anywhere on Monday, a lawyers letter may speed things up and probably worth the £50 or whatever they charge these days .
Thank you. When you say formal letter, I assumed e mail correspondence would suffice ? Also I have sent correspondence to the After Sales manager ....I don't know who the dealer principal is ? Does anyone have an idea of how long it will take them to return my funds ? Also in relation to an extended warranty on a new engine has anyone had any experience of obtaining coverage like this in the past ?
SarahAnn200
Active Member
With the Audi, I got a refund as soon as they had the car in their possession. It took them about a week to organise collection. Write everything down, when you ring them etc and make notes of conversations. I would email Mercedes customer services so that they are aware. They are very good. I would explain the situation to them. When I rejected a 19 reg Audi car at a couple of months old, I dealt with Audi customer services, they rang the General manager of lookers and told him to contact me with a resolution that I was satisfied with. They were then going to get back to him and ensure he had sorted it. I realise that it was Audi, but consumer rights are the same over all brands.
I have also dealt with Mercedes customer services and they are very efficient. On the C43 I have now, I noticed when I got it home on collection day, (Tamworth to East Yorkshire), the tyres were skipping when I was turning in and out of the drive. It's a well known 'feature'. They say it is due to it having summer tyres on and being 4matic. I spoke to the dealer about it and he said I would have to buy a full set of all weather tyres to fix the issue. I said I'm not buying a set of tyres on a car that is only a few months old. I wrote to merc customer services, they forwarded to the AMG arm in Germany. Germany contacted me and said they have spoken to the supplying dealer and advised them to fit a full set of all weather tyres to fix the issue. They were fantastic for me.
On both occasions, Audi and Mercedes customer services have been fantastic. I would definitely inform them
When I told the salesman that I was going to reject the audi s3 due to paint issues, he laughed at me on the phone and told me I had paid for it and couldn't reject it. I think he thought that I would go away and I got the feeling that he wouldn't have fobbed a man off or laughed at a man but customer services were fantastic. You are within your rights to reject it
I have also dealt with Mercedes customer services and they are very efficient. On the C43 I have now, I noticed when I got it home on collection day, (Tamworth to East Yorkshire), the tyres were skipping when I was turning in and out of the drive. It's a well known 'feature'. They say it is due to it having summer tyres on and being 4matic. I spoke to the dealer about it and he said I would have to buy a full set of all weather tyres to fix the issue. I said I'm not buying a set of tyres on a car that is only a few months old. I wrote to merc customer services, they forwarded to the AMG arm in Germany. Germany contacted me and said they have spoken to the supplying dealer and advised them to fit a full set of all weather tyres to fix the issue. They were fantastic for me.
On both occasions, Audi and Mercedes customer services have been fantastic. I would definitely inform them
When I told the salesman that I was going to reject the audi s3 due to paint issues, he laughed at me on the phone and told me I had paid for it and couldn't reject it. I think he thought that I would go away and I got the feeling that he wouldn't have fobbed a man off or laughed at a man but customer services were fantastic. You are within your rights to reject it
SarahAnn200
Active Member
I did it all with emails Margaret when I rejected a car. I would definitely contact customer services as they will get involved from their side as well. My refund was quick, as soon as they got the car back
jdrrco
MB Enthusiast
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You don't necessarily need to get a solicitor involved. There are templates available for rejecting the car, but ultimately, your very specific circumstances mean that they cannot possibly refuse if that's what you want. You are still asking about extended warranties etc, so the first thing you need to do is to make up your mind whether you want the car back or not.
If the garage who missed the problem with the car in the first place is the same one who is planning to put the new engine in, it wouldn't take me more than a few seconds to make that decision.
Did you pay for any of the purchase price on a credit card by any chance? If so, you have added protection there, but once again you need to decide what you are doing and then stick with it. If you waver over rejecting the car, then you haven't rejected it and you are back at the mercy of the dealership who tried to fleece you.
Template letter from Which:
[Your address]
[Manager/ owner]
[Dealership address]
Dear Sir/ Madam
Ref: [registration number of vehicle]
On [date] I purchased, and took delivery of, the above vehicle [make and model] from you. On [date] I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality: [describe the problem].
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods that are fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality. However, the vehicle is clearly not roadworthy. You are therefore in breach of contract.
I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to be reimbursed the original purchase price of [£xx]. I look forward to receiving your cheque for this sum within 14 days.
If you fail to reimburse me, I shall have no alternative but to issue a claim against you in the county court for recovery of the money without further reference to you.
Yours faithfully,
[Your name and signature]
If the garage who missed the problem with the car in the first place is the same one who is planning to put the new engine in, it wouldn't take me more than a few seconds to make that decision.
Did you pay for any of the purchase price on a credit card by any chance? If so, you have added protection there, but once again you need to decide what you are doing and then stick with it. If you waver over rejecting the car, then you haven't rejected it and you are back at the mercy of the dealership who tried to fleece you.
Template letter from Which:
[Your address]
[Manager/ owner]
[Dealership address]
Dear Sir/ Madam
Ref: [registration number of vehicle]
On [date] I purchased, and took delivery of, the above vehicle [make and model] from you. On [date] I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality: [describe the problem].
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods that are fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality. However, the vehicle is clearly not roadworthy. You are therefore in breach of contract.
I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to be reimbursed the original purchase price of [£xx]. I look forward to receiving your cheque for this sum within 14 days.
If you fail to reimburse me, I shall have no alternative but to issue a claim against you in the county court for recovery of the money without further reference to you.
Yours faithfully,
[Your name and signature]
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Thank you very much. I didn't use a credit card. I have contacted Mercedes customer service and have been issued with a complaint number. They will contact the dealership on my behalf and were helpful in their approach. I have emailed the after sales manager asking for a refund. Fingers crossed they will get a similiar replacement sorted quickly from their database.
I'm back again to request further advice. Eventually..(.and it has taken multiple calls) I have got a callback from the used car manager in garage A. He went off to investigate the problem i.e call garage B and within an hour I had a call from the mechanic in garage B to say the car was 'back on the road' ! However (the mechanic) wishes to meet me in the morning to show me some 'issues' with the car. He wouldn't go into all the detail on the phone but I gather he is backtracking on his initial finding of 'coolant in the engine oil'. He says he 'presumed' this was the case as the oil was reading high and coolant reading was low. He now states that at some point in the vehicles life the engine loom or wiring harness was replaced. I asked him how he knew this and he says the badge on it is younger than the age of the car. He also said there are one or two items 'missing' under the bonnet ...I'm not kidding. He also said that he couldn't replace them unless garage A picked up the bill as they are missing and not accounted for under the Mercedes service history so he could not replace them under the terms of the warranty. I have no idea how he could have made his initial error of assessment (if it was an error), but these new issues bring me no reassurance. He says he has replaced the coolant which he now thinks was 'left empty in error' ? when the loom was being replaced. He says they have pressure tested it and there are no leaks. On the afternoon when the engine oil light came on saying overfill I did call to a friend who I would trust as a mechanic (he didn't touch the car) but stated that the coolant was 'spilling over into the expansion tank' and the coolant was extremely hot. I did note pink fluid on around the cap and below the tank. The after sales manager in garage A did say that last Nov the car was presented to another Mercedes garage with an 'engine light management system' error on the dash, but there was no repair logged on the system. Anyway needless to say the main dealership who sold me the car are pushing for me to pick it up tomorrow. Obviously I'm going to speak to the mechanic first and see what is missing a bolt was mentioned along with an unusual tie ? I'm not happy with these explanations, how come if the coolant was low it was spilling out ? Any opinions?
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Formally reject the car in writing, refuse to have further discussions about the car , there are clearly problems with this car which are being hidden by the dealer selling it
W1ghty
MB Enthusiast
Wot he said ^^^
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