Hi-Fi buffs. Recommend a Music Streamer

[DoberMan]

I am looking to buy a network music streamer.
There is a bewildering amount of choice out there as with most things these days.

Needs/Wants:
Must be able to access internet radio wirelessly.
Stream from iPhone and Macbook.
Best sound quality within budget. (£400-£2k)

Nice to have but not important:
Rip CD's.

I already have a Rega Brio Amp, Teac CD Player and Q Acoustics floor standing speakers.

Would I be better to replace the amp and CD player with an all in one unit?
Would I get better/worse sound quality with an integrated amp?

I realise this question is a bit like how much would a Mercedes cost me and there is no definitive answer but I am looking for recommendations for those that have one.

My local Audiophile shop (which I have visited) does not sell Streamers but they do sell equipment for the price of a new AMG or two! £140k for speakers anyone?

 

[bluestreak]

I was going to recommend a modern receiver, but this would mean trading in your rega brio. Pioneer LX88 is a a very good cinema amp.

 

[MancMike]

Naim do streamers that support Spotify. I don't know about everything else on your list, but have a look.

 

[DoberMan]

Wow. That's nice. Probably more than I need for audio only. TV is not something I bother with.

 

[DoberMan]

Yes, been looking at Naim and they are top of the list at the moment.

But do I keep the Amp or go All in One? Ummm

 

[MancMike]

I didn't know Naim did anything TV related. Always known them as a high-end hifi company. I'm a little out of date where the Venn diagram bubbles of tech and high-end audio converge...

 

[DoberMan]

I didn't know Naim did anything TV related. Always known them as a high-end hifi company. I'm a little out of date where the Venn diagram bubbles of tech and high-end audio converge...

Sorry Mike
Quotes got lost in the ethernet………….TV reference was regarding the Pioneer……..

 

[219]

It isn’t exactly a streamer , but I have my AirPort Extreme base station as the hub of my network , connected by Ethernet to my Mac Pro , and an Airport Express plugged in behind my hi-fi system and into one of the Aux inputs on my Quad preamp .

This allows me to play any audio from the computer through my hi-fi system , most usually content from iTunes , but would equally work with internet radio or any other sources from the computer .

CDs can of course be inserted into the computer and ripped to iTunes if required , although most content is available on Apple Music if you have a membership .

Quad also have a DAC , but mostly I listen to records or FM radio , which with BBC radio at least is still sonically superior to digital offerings from the internet.

Oh , and with the iTunes remote app on my iPhone , I can control iTunes on my computer ( which is in another room ) to play music in the living room . My iTunes library can be accessed via any computer in the house via family sharing .

 

[PhilLinda]

Another recommendation for Naim. I've got a streaming pre-amp [NAC-N172] with separate power amp. You can go as integrated as you want, right up to the Uniti Star or Uniti Nova.

If you just want a reasonable quality multi-room system then the Sonos setups are pretty good.

 

[st13phil]

If you just want a reasonable quality multi-room system then the Sonos setups are pretty good.

I use a SONOS Connect feeding into my Cyrus DAC-XP / Monobloc system and it's great. I previously had it connected into a regular pre-amp analogue input using the onboard DAC in the Connect and that was fine too, but I found that using a dedicated DAC gives a marginal improvement in resolution. The SONOS user interface and integration with different streaming services is very good, and setup couldn't be simpler. I ripped all my CD's to FLAC files stored on a NAS and stream them via the SONOS wherever I wish, having also put a few SONOS speakers around the house. The only thing to be aware of is that SONOS won't stream Hi-Res audio, being limited to 16-bit. If you wish to keep your Brio then there's much to commend the SONOS solution, imo, with which a £350 investment in a Connect will get you started.

Another recommendation for Naim. I've got a streaming pre-amp [NAC-N172] with separate power amp. You can go as integrated as you want, right up to the Uniti Star or Uniti Nova.

This is going to sound like heresy to Naim fans, but my experience is that you either gel with the Naim sound or you don't. Personally, I don't. Around 7 or 8 years ago before I went down the SONOS route I had some Naim kit at home for an extended demo as I'd read that the "Naim Sound" had shifted a bit from it's 1980's / 1990's style. The dealer who loaned me the equipment was quite crestfallen when I took it back and told him that all the extended demo had done was reinforce my view that I didn't get on with Naim's sonic presentation YMMV, of course, and it just goes to underline how important an extended listening period is at working out what's best for you.

 

[219]

This is going to sound like heresy to Naim fans, but my experience is that you either gel with the Naim sound or you don't. Personally, I don't. Around 7 or 8 years ago before I went down the SONOS route I had some Naim kit at home for an extended demo as I'd read that the "Naim Sound" had shifted a bit from it's 1980's / 1990's style. The dealer who loaned me the equipment was quite crestfallen when I took it back and told him that all the extended demo had done was reinforce my view that I didn't get on with Naim's sonic presentation YMMV, of course, and it just goes to underline how important an extended listening period is at working out what's best for you.

Horses for courses , but I know exactly what you mean .

I worked in the trade from late 70's through to early 90's and we sold most of the high end stuff - including Linn , Naim , Quad , Sugden , Meridian , Michell , Cambridge , A&R , Yamaha , Lux , Technics , Sony ......... and more .

Having tried , and often had home for extended periods , I know that different brands have their own philosophies , and sounds , the one I sat most comfortably with in the early days was Quad - then I got interested in home cinema and had a high end Sony ES system , then latterly tired of it and have now gone back to a period Quad system with 77/707 electronics , ESL63 loudspeakers , Gyrodec QC/RB700/AT-OC9 front end , and a few other peripherals . These days , less is more and I find the above both easy and pleasant to listen to/through .

 

[st13phil]

...gone back to a period Quad system with 77/707 electronics , ESL63 loudspeakers , Gyrodec QC/RB700/AT-OC9 front end , and a few other peripherals . These days , less is more and I find the above both easy and pleasant to listen to/through .

With your background you probably know better than most how critical putting together a well-balanced system is to getting a great, non-fatiguing sound that draws you into the music rather than just offering aural pyrotechnics that become tiring once the "look at me" gloss has worn off. Over the years I've lost count of how many systems I've heard that consist of one or more "highly respected" components that, as a complete system, sound rather less than stellar.

Just wondering if you ever came across Ken Proctor (ex-Grado, then Stilton Audio) who, back in the late 80's and into the 90's, used to rework AT's budget moving coil cartridges (AT-F3 & AT-F5) putting them into a solid body with great results? He first did a solid body version of the A&R Cambridge C77/E77/P77 (I still have a Stilton E77 in a cupboard somewhere) with excellent results that lead to A&R bringing out their own "mg" series of those, and then moved on to the AT moving coil cartridges. My memory is hazy on the sequence of events, but I seem to remember that it was his work on those that encouraged AT to bring out the AT-OC7 & AT-OC9. I still have one of his solid body AT-F5's in my LP12/Akito.

My first real experience of Naim kit was in Ken's original shop in Stilton when he had a Naim six-pack fed from an LP12/Ittok/??? into a pair of the original Kans. It certainly majored on pace, rhythm and timing, with drum rimshots being particularly memorable, but I could never have lived with the rest of its sonic signature in the long term.

 

[DoberMan]

Thank you all for your replies. Some good info.

I have heard of Sonos but was not aware of Sonos Connect.
This may be an option as I then get to keep my current setup and could also add further speakers around the house.

I am assuming it works wirelessly and does not need ethernet cable to work?

 

[st13phil]

It will connect to your home network via wi-fi, or via wired ethernet.

Something I forgot to mention is that it also has an analogue line in facility which will allow you to connect an analogue source if you wish, and stream that around the house.

 

[219]

With your background you probably know better than most how critical putting together a well-balanced system is to getting a great, non-fatiguing sound that draws you into the music rather than just offering aural pyrotechnics that become tiring once the "look at me" gloss has worn off. Over the years I've lost count of how many systems I've heard that consist of one or more "highly respected" components that, as a complete system, sound rather less than stellar.

Just wondering if you ever came across Ken Proctor (ex-Grado, then Stilton Audio) who, back in the late 80's and into the 90's, used to rework AT's budget moving coil cartridges (AT-F3 & AT-F5) putting them into a solid body with great results? He first did a solid body version of the A&R Cambridge C77/E77/P77 (I still have a Stilton E77 in a cupboard somewhere) with excellent results that lead to A&R bringing out their own "mg" series of those, and then moved on to the AT moving coil cartridges. My memory is hazy on the sequence of events, but I seem to remember that it was his work on those that encouraged AT to bring out the AT-OC7 & AT-OC9. I still have one of his solid body AT-F5's in my LP12/Akito.

My first real experience of Naim kit was in Ken's original shop in Stilton when he had a Naim six-pack fed from an LP12/Ittok/??? into a pair of the original Kans. It certainly majored on pace, rhythm and timing, with drum rimshots being particularly memorable, but I could never have lived with the rest of its sonic signature in the long term.

Absolutely, I remember well that certain things worked well together, and others didn’t.

One of the first systems I heard like that wouldn’t now be thought of as hi-fi, but was very pleasant to listen to - a friend had a Garrard 401 with SME 3009S2 and Shure V15 ( cant remember which mark but probably 3 ) , Quad 33/303 and the original ESL 57’s - that was just such a smooth , effortless and easy listening system , with lots of detail , open sound , pin point imaging , but these days would probably be criticised on so many levels .

Of course , it wasn’t just a matter of matching one component to another , but the whole system to a listening room , and to the customer’s tastes and expectations .

I still remember one customer who came in and bought a pair of Tannoy Ardens , a Pioneer SX1010 receiver , Technics direct drive turntable ( can’t remember which one ) , declined the offer of a home demo and insisted that was what he wanted . When we went to deliver , the address turned out to be a terraced council house with barely space in the living room to fit the speakers either side of the fireplace , the receiver and turntable sat atop one of the speakers ! And his listening sofa backed against the opposite wall left ones feet almost in line with the fronts of the speakers . There wasn’t room for anything else !

I didn’t know Ken , but do remember the A&R cartridges. Of course we sold a lot of Shure, Ortofon , AT and other mm cartridges , and moving coils from Ortofon , AT , Supex , and the best seller was the high output Ultimo / Dynavector DV10 which didn’t need matching transformers or mc preamps . Very few amplifiers had mc input stages in the early days .

All dim & distant memories now , alas .

 

[Deleted member 126251]

I am looking to buy a network music streamer.

Isn't expecting "Hi-Fi" on a streaming service unrealistic?

 

[Deleted member 126251]

Absolutely, ......................

I 'think' I agree with you (I'm not an expert) .. A good system needs the right space and a quality source...ripped CDs etc and streaming media don't seem to have enough data to provide music to justify expensive systems.. I had a Linn system and was playing iPod music....didn't work.

 

[st13phil]

Isn't expecting "Hi-Fi" on a streaming service unrealistic?

Not at all. Whilst many services are relatively low bitrate, there are also a variety of hi-res audio streaming services available that offer 24-bit streams.

CD's ripped to a lossless format (e.g. FLAC) lose nothing in terms of resolution and, in fact, depending upon the ripper can actually end up better than a CD player's rendition because error correction isn't being applied "on the fly".

 

[LTD]

Isn't expecting "Hi-Fi" on a streaming service unrealistic?

Nope.

A great streaming resource at high quality bitrate (FLAC so CD quality) is Tidal.

Not an expensive subscription either and a world of old and new music in front of you.

 

[DoberMan]

Well I did it.

Thank you for your recommendations.

Bought the Sonos Connect and Play 5 today. John Lewis matched the price of RicherSounds so that was a saving of £40 on the Connect.

At first, disappointment. Oh no, can't get BBC internet radio stations, the thing I really wanted.
Quick search on the web revealed this to be a major problem in the UK between Sonos and BBC but all is resolved now and it works perfectly.

Compared to my Roberts Stream Radio I had in the kitchen it's streets ahead in sound quality and the Play 5 is good enough for a much larger room.

Now I can access BBC 6 Music and 4xtra I'm very happy.

The only thing I can't do is stream from my Macbook. It seems Sonos Apps are only for iPads and iPhones. Not really a problem but would have been nice.

Thanks all.