High Court rules in favour of 159mph Police Officer

[Carrotchomper]

Saw this on a police forum I frequent.

Comments invited, given how the last topic on this subject went it could be interesting!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/6457871.stm

A Shropshire police officer has won his High Court bid to overturn a conviction for dangerous driving after reaching up to 159mph in an unmarked patrol car.


Pc Mark Milton, of Telford, an advanced police driver, was convicted last year after originally being acquitted.
District Judge Peter Wallis found him guilty after ruling his driving skills were "irrelevant" to the case. But two High Court judges have said the district judge "misdirected himself" and told him to look at the case again.

Lady Justice Smith and Mr Justice Gross, sitting at London's High Court on Friday, sent the case back to him to decide whether "Pc Milton's unusual driving skills were such as to make a crucial difference to the dangerousness of his driving".

 

[jeremytaylor]

Nice to see that 'normal service' is resumed!

 

[Gollom]

You beat me to it!!

So, if we go on an advanced driving skills course it will be OK to speed then?

Makes my 51mph in a 40mph zone last month look silly doesn't it? Hey, it was in the B Class which I had only just got so I can claim that I was familiarising myself with it? Yeah, right!

No wonder that people sometimes lose respect for the justice system

 

[BTB 500]

OK so his "unusual driving skills" meant that the speed wasn't actually dangerous.

What if he'd left the Police the week before, and had been caught doing the same speed in his own car? Same driving skills present ... so presumably they'd still have overturned the conviction?

 

[grober]

Superior training is what its all about!

I'm shocked. Next thing you'll be telling me is the police will shoot you for carrying a table leg. Hang on a minute----------------------?????

 

[Parrot of Doom]

This doesn't mean that the dangerous driving prosecution will be overturned.

 

[glojo]

Seems to me that he is being ytreated like any other CONVICTED person? He was found guilty, appealled and won the appeal. It looks to me like there is one rule for everyone that can either afford a decent advocate, or are entitled to legal aid.

Should we list all the convicted murderers that have had the case thrown out on appeal?

The reasons for this appeal are contraversial, but these reasons are really irrelevant. It was a game that took place in a court of law, and there are winners and loosers in this game. Unfortunately JUSTICE is not top of the list of events in our courts.

John the cynical

 

[Rose Chap]

At least he wasn't found looking in his glovebox.

 

[Swiss Toni]

No, but both the original court AND the Appeal will have seen the video.

 

[MBManInKen]

At least he wasn't found looking in his glovebox.

LOL!

 

[glojo]

At least he wasn't found looking in his glovebox.

But that would be an open and shut case...

Regards.
John

 

[MangoMan]

Well, they get away with beating-up women, (although this was 4 to 1), (in their favour), shooting innocent people, killing innocent people, so why shouldn't they get away with speeding, they do it all the time, it's about the only time you see a Police car is when it's speeding and usually talking into a mic of some sort, whilt putting on his seat belt and finding somewhere to put his coffee???

.......................... S**t, sorry, I forgot they have had special training to do all this....... poppycock!

 

[Subyland]

I wonder whether the same would happen if the driver was Nigel Mansell...????? or would his driving skills not be enough ?

 

[glojo]

Well, they get away with beating-up women, (although this was 4 to 1), (in their favour), shooting innocent people, killing innocent people, so why shouldn't they get away with speeding, they do it all the time, it's about the only time you see a Police car is when it's speeding and usually talking into a mic of some sort, whilt putting on his seat belt and finding somewhere to put his coffee???

.......................... S**t, sorry, I forgot they have had special training to do all this....... poppycock!

I'm not a Police Officer but I find your post sic and objectionable.

The so called woman your talking about is I suppose the poor, victimised young mother that was an epileptic who was drunk, violent and vandalised a car, plus before she was restrained she quite clearly hit the officer so hard on the head, it knocked his hat off. This 'Lady' that suffers from epileptic fits certainly did not mind going into a night club with flashing strobe lights, she admitted on TV to regularly drinking a bottle of brandy, she also admitted to being very violent, but hey when someone is filmed punching her arm then hang him.

I would suggest you read just a few threads on this forum about folks that have had their cars 'keyed' or the star broken off. Read all the comments about the violence members would like to inflict upon the culprits. Where are your remarks criticising these members for their outrage, or is it one rule for one section of society and one rule for another? This so called lady pleaded guilty to damaging a car and various other offences.

I am NOT condoning ANY type of violence against women, however I was NOT at this incident, I never saw what really took place, I also don't understand the reason why this officer had to thump the prisoner, but I am NOT taken in by this so called ladies version of events. Your shooting example was a terrible, terrible tragic incident, but try living in a whole host of different countries before moaning about this one.

On todays news we are hearing of a woman who committed suicide after serving three years for killing two babies. After a number of appeals she was released or found not guilty, just like this officer. His case has been treated in exactly the same way. We might disagree but he has merely used the law just like you or I have the option of doing.

If we don't like the standard of policing, then the answer might be within ourselves. Join the Police and enforce the laws.

Sorry for the rant, but I hate it when we criticise those we entrust with keeping the Queen's peace and sadly regularly risk their lives merely to protect us. Would you make your remarks about the Police to the children of the officer that died whilst attending a robbery at that travel agents. None of us like being criticised for our driving, pulled over for allegedly speeding etc.

John

 

[Sp!ke]

I am amased at this result.

If this sets a precident, the courts will be full of people claiming their training/experience meant that their driving wasn't dangerous or without due care. For me, the question is black and white. Was he speeding? yes/no? Any talk of testing the car or familiarising himself is popycock. This 'testing' should be done on a closed road. Frankly 160mph in any Vauxhall has to be pretty hair raising and very close to the edge of its handling capabilities.

I was thinking about driving standards the other day and I thought that if I was to think of a particular group or type of driver (like van drivers or taxi drivers or OAP's etc), & which catagory of driver stood out for having the worst standards based on what I witness?

Surprisingly, I came to the conclusion that it was the Police that stood out for me most for their poor driving standards as I regularly see them charging around in a reckless manner - almost daily in fact. I'm not necessarilly talking about the the trained pursuit drivers as they are generally pretty good, I'm talking about the drivers of the normal panda cars, often fresh out of Hendon with very little driving experience under their belt.

 

[glojo]

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when this case was discussed at the prosecution level? Was it in the public interest to prosecute? Would this prosecution create tremendous adverse publicity for law enforcement agencies?

How did the prosecution come to fruition?

Who was the complainant?

Why did they make the complaint?

Those that are most vocal about one rule for us and one rule for the Police seem to very convienantly forget that it MUST have been the Police htat reported this person in the first place??

I like the Nigel Mansell comparison and can recall him being prosecuted for speeding whilst he was a Special Constable in the Devon and Cornwall Constabulary, mind you I believe it was in his Bentley when attending a private function. Then of course we had the Home Secretary, (Jack Straw) his driver was reported for speeding in excess of 100mph on the M5 whilst on route to Exeter, but I don't think this case went to court?

Far be it for me to add fuel to the flames

Bye for now,
John

 

[Carrotchomper]

Glad to see I've started another "Healthy debate"!

 

[Dieselman]

If we don't like the standard of policing, then the answer might be within ourselves. Join the Police and enforce the laws.

Whilst I am not either agreeing or disagreeing with your post, the comment here is not really helpful nor an answer.

Perhaps there are members here that would like to be Police officers but can't for various reasons, such as age, medical or because they are not PC enough.
It is still the case that they should expect serving officers to practice the same laws that they perport to uphold, and if they don't do that then they should be punished accordingly.

The officer in question was, iirc, driving an unfamiliar car whilst off duty. Surely if driving an unfamiliar car additional caution should be taken, especially when driving through towns.
If special training is required for this particular car then that should be undertaken by the officers that will drive it having accompanied sessions until they are familiar with it.

I know you took exception at Mangomans post but I think he was just illustrating the point that there appear to be double standards being applied so allowing officers liberties that the general public doesn't have and the subsequent reasoning for applying the rules differently is poor and invalid.

 

[grober]

public relations are important.

I don't think many people think the police have an easy job. I certainly wouldn't like to do their job which is often difficult and risks personal injury or worse. However I would maintain that cases like this do the police force no good. If they are perceived as "above the law" this alienates the general public who are far less likely to support them in their efforts to uphold law and order in a country where the rule of law is increasingly under threat. How many times have we heard that the prosecution of criminal cases fail because of a lack of witness testimony. "Naw mate I never saw nuffink must have been looking the other way or somethink. Cant help you there" Its essential that the police keep the general public on their side. They have to be seen to be impartial even to their own officers. This officer might win this little battle but in larger scale of things his force may lose a lot more.

 

[glojo]

I know you took exception at Mangomans post but I think he was just illustrating the point that there appear to be double standards being applied so allowing officers liberties that the general public doesn't have and the subsequent reasoning for applying the rules differently is poor and invalid.

I think both you and Graeme have raised excellent and very valid points, I am NEVER going to defend this individual as I agree so much with the valid points that are being raised here, hence my comments about 'Public Interest'

It must surely have been the Police themselves that decided this individual should be reported?

It must then have been the CPS that took the decision to go ahead?

It is then down to the Judges to uphold the lower courts decision?

Surely the Police have decided this behaviour was wrong?

As I said on the previous thread, I am NOT defending this person, I am merely saying he has taken advantage of our judicial system. How many members of this forum try to duck and dive out of being prosecuted for speeding? There are Internet sites dedicated to finding loopholes with our laws, so surely this person is doing exactly that.

If I am totally honest, then I feel there was an error in judgement by the CPS. I would have thought a better option would have been to discipline this character internally. Chuck him off traffic duties and offer him the most obnoxious job possible. This prosecution has done untold damage nationwide and made the Police service appear bias in their attitude.

Just remember the Police reported this driver.

Regards
John the argumentative