Holy Sheet: Oil price drops 30% overnight after collapse of OPEC talks

[MikeInWimbledon]

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This is more interesting than 2008, because the oil price has done the "Wile E Coyote Canyon fall" realising that Chinese demand for oil (that was keeping it up) has evaporated, at the same time as the West has panicked about the effect of Coronavirus, doing curious things like trying to self-isolate Italy. (Seriously: have they never worked with Italians before?)

 

[Harrythedog]

Is this not the sign of things to come when “we” are all driving EV’s and the demand for oil drops to the floor ?

 

[Petrol Pete]

Is this not the sign of things to come when “we” are all driving EV’s and the demand for oil drops to the floor ?

Exactly. Anyone (country) who is 100% relying on oil for survival must hope and pray everyday that one of the thousands of clever bod's working on EV technology does not have that Eureka !! moment where they actually discover something that makes EV a viable choice for the masses.
Add to that the push to get rid of plastics (oil based) and they are in real trouble.

 

[190]

While there are long term issues for oil it's still needed. I blame stock market crash on the Russians who refused to play ball by reducing oil production. Any time you question whether the Russians should be given the benefit of the doubt they respond by behaving like ar$holes. The world is on a verge of health crisis and what do the Russians do - they play silly buggers by sending a few strategic bombers towards our air space.

 

[BTB 500]

I thought that these stock markets and stuff only existed so that people could make money when they move up and down. Surely a little bit of scare mongering is what moves them up and down, and therefore, what people make money from?

Indeed. Most oil majors have sizeable trading divisions that use market volatility to make money (a lot of it, if they are any good). This can partially offset lower revenue resulting from low prices.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Is this not the sign of things to come when “we” are all driving EV’s and the demand for oil drops to the floor ?

Yep.....especially as the Government then switches taxation on car usage from petrol to road usage.

They aint giving up £80 billion of fuel tax revenues without some kind of "adjustment."

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

While there are long term issues for oil it's still needed. I blame stock market crash on the Russians who refused to play ball by reducing oil production. Any time you question whether the Russians should be given the benefit of the doubt they respond by behaving like ar$holes. The world is on a verge of health crisis and what do the Russians do - they play silly buggers by sending a few strategic bombers towards our air space.

So we should hate the Russkies because they've made the price of oil drop by 30%, meaning that you and I will only be saving £300 a year because we're paying £1.10 / litre?

Personally, I'll hate Russkies because they're buying all the best real estate, and drive round in exotic sports cars with dubious looking blondes in fur coats by their side.

To my eyes the price of oil has gone down because the Chinese have stopped consuming vast amounts of it.

Greta's happy - but she's forgotten that it's the Oil companies who are the World's biggest investors in Renewable Energy. And if they're making less money, they'll be investing less in Green tech.

 

[st13phil]

Greta's happy - but she's forgotten that it's the Oil companies who are the World's biggest investors in Renewable Energy. And if they're making less money, they'll be investing less in Green tech.

The inconvenient truth ignored by XR and the rest of the eco-loons who advocate damaging and/or curtailing the oil companies

Returning to the thread title, most of us here are old enough to remember the oil price shocks of the 1970's and the uncomfortable realignments that caused. The combination of reducing global oil consumption and the USA's relatively recent energy independence (as a result of shale oil / gas production) will have a significant effect over the coming couple of decades on the wealth of those ruling many of the middle-eastern states. States that are not generally known for their equality or stability at a time when they've had significant wealth, so Lord knows what the fallout will be once their money tree dies.

If the demands of the eco-loons to accelerate the removal of fossil fuels from the energy mix are met then then I foresee a massive increase of instability in the former oil-rich states, and the complete collapse of some of them, which will help no-one.

 

[Bellow]

Returning to the thread title, most of us here are old enough to remember the oil price shocks of the 1970's and the uncomfortable realignments that caused. The combination of reducing global oil consumption and the USA's relatively recent energy independence (as a result of shale oil / gas production) will have a significant effect over the coming couple of decades on the wealth of those ruling many of the middle-eastern states. States that are not generally known for their equality or stability at a time when they've had significant wealth, so Lord knows what the fallout will be once their money tree dies.

If the demands of the eco-loons to accelerate the removal of fossil fuels from the energy mix are met then then I foresee a massive increase of instability in the former oil-rich states, and the complete collapse of some of them, which will help no-one.

The above, vs mass migration due to the effects of uncontained climate change?
If I saw a little more willingness from the developed world to cater for the needs and well being of those who will suffer the worst effects of climate change then we might have some choice in this. As it is, the closed border mentality that is engulfing the developed world pretty much closes down that option. What and how much of it (eg our personal mobility) are we prepared to sacrifice to avoid sharing with the most disadvantaged, to keep migrants away from our coast?

 

[st13phil]

The above, vs mass migration due to the effects of uncontained climate change?

Climate change is happening. Fact.

The issue I’m unconvinced over is the notion that humankind is able to manipulate climate change to its advantage by doing different things over a relatively short period.

Taking well-understood actions to mitigate the effects as climate changes seems to me to be a strategy that is more likely to bear fruit than taking actions that are clearly damaging to lots of the population on the off chance that those actions will somehow “stop climate change”. If you want to hedge your bets, do a bit of both but a headlong rush to rapidly “decarbonise” (itself a nonsense term) will have a bad outcome in many ways, with no guarantee that it will have the hoped for effect on the planet's climate.

 

[Bellow]

Climate change is happening. Fact.

The issue I’m unconvinced over is the notion that humankind is able to manipulate climate change to its advantage by doing different things over a relatively short period.

Taking well-understood actions to mitigate the effects as climate changes seems to me to be a strategy that is more likely to bear fruit than taking actions that are clearly damaging to lots of the population on the off chance that those actions will somehow “stop climate change”. If you want to hedge your bets, do a bit of both but a headlong rush to rapidly “decarbonise” (itself a nonsense term) will have a bad outcome in many ways, with no guarantee that it will have the hoped for effect on the planet's climate.

Not much to argue with there but I have to add along with 'mitigation', we (developed world at the personal level) need also to reduce our carbon footprint (for the want of a better term). I'm not seeing much of that as yet. The implied selfishness of that leaves me questioning the willingness to implement the required 'mitigations' but if a slow down in the rush to decarbonisation means the economy is better protected, then the required wealth is more likely to be there to pay for the mitigations. I just think we are still some way off the change in mindset required for this. Potentially though, such an approach ensures that no one 'group' is left to shoulder all the burdens and is as close to a win win scenario for all parties as we can possibly get.

 

[st13phil]

but if a slow down in the rush to decarbonisation means the economy is better protected, then the required wealth is more likely to be there to pay for the mitigations.

And that is precisely what is not accepted by climate extremists such as XR, Greta and her hard-of-thinking disciples.

 

[Bellow]

And that is precisely what is not accepted by climate extremists such as XR, Greta and her hard-of-thinking disciples.

In fairness to Greta and XR - that there could be a willingness to move toward this and not merely deny climate change's existence has been pretty much hidden from view!

What this does highlight is the need for cooperation, the need for each side to recognise the other's concerns, the need to work together and subdue the continuing polarisation.

 

[st13phil]

What this does highlight is the need for cooperation, the need for each side to recognise the other's concerns, the need to work together and subdue the continuing polarisation.

I agree that cooperation is the way forward.

Unfortunately, there is plenty of evidence that the "climate emergency" zealots are unwilling to engage, except on their own very narrow terms. I am not alone in questioning their motives: I'm sure some are sincere in their beliefs (even if I'm not wholly convinced by their arguments, let alone their tactics), but others are more interested in wrecking the current world order and are using the changing climate as a vehicle to advance their aims.

 

[Benzmanc]

Hmmm, petrol prices coming down.....cue tomorrow's budget and a fuel tax hike.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Hmmm, petrol prices coming down.....cue tomorrow's budget and a fuel tax hike.

Guaranteed: "A good week to bury a fuel duty rise"

(The woman in the street won't notice a missing 10p a litre price reduction)

 

[Piff]

Regrettably in mid January we started making financial arrangements for retirement which is likely to take place over the next 2 to 5 years.
Part of the strategy to get 4% to 5% return on investments was to invest in equity funds.
Sizeable lump invested. If only we had delayed until now

 

[KennyN]

Regrettably in mid January we started making financial arrangements for retirement which is likely to take place over the next 2 to 5 years.
Part of the strategy to get 4% to 5% return on investments was to invest in equity funds.
Sizeable lump invested. If only we had delayed until now

Similar position , been hammering the pension payments for the last year to get the maximum contribution from the company so that i would be in a position to retire in two years. More ££ have been lost in the last 10 days than what i have contributed in the last 18 months.

Having said that ,on a plus point at least we still have our health which is more that can be said for some other poor souls.

K

 

[Skd884]

Cheer up gents its not all doom and gloom -



)))

 

[Piff]

I’m not looking at the current situation on the basis that markets recover.
So will take a view in 12 months time to see if my current chosen financial advisor deserves my next investment.