Home electrical advice req.

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Mr. B

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Home electrical advice req please.
Briefly I have a double wall socket under the kitchen unit which supplies both the washer and the dryer. Last week one of the sockets just stopped working for no apparent reason. I started to use a extension lead plugged into the usable socket so we could use both the washer and dryer at the same time. Today the other socket stopped working but I did notice that the plug at the end of the extension lead was extremely hot and so was the wall plug socket. I failed to notice wether the first socket that stopped working was hot or not at the time it packed up working.
The wall socket was fitted over 10 years ago and we have had no problems up until now, so I’m a bit perplexed as to why it should suddenly fail.
Any advice would be appreciate.
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if the washer and dryer were both on at the same time that double socket was drawing a large current which probably heated up the contacts in the socket which softened the metal which meant the contacts werent as tight so the heated up and losta bit more contact etc etc. looks like a decent MK socket? so replace it with new one(not the mk essentials, they are carp) and replace the plugs on the washer and dryer. although double sockets can in theory carry 2x13a they dont really like it for long periods hence the plug and socket getting hot due to slightly loose contact between socket and plug. although an ext lead is ok for a temp fix please replace as soon as.
 
I wouldn’t recommend plugging a tumble drier and a washing machine into an extension lead - the current draw could exceed what is safe for the cable and the plug (hence why it was so hot!)

You could replace the socket outlet yourself if you are competent but I would recommend getting an electrician to look at the wiring and why you have had two go in short succession, you could also get them to do a basic electrical check on the washer/drier.
 
Sparkys run things that fit under counters off one fused spur these days and it's rubbish.

When we had the kitchen done 2 years ago the spark had run the dishwasher, washing machine and drier off the same fused spur. As he left he said 'I wouldn't run all three at the same time if I were you'. Just running two will burn out the spur, I'm on my fourth, the Mrs hates not being able to run all three when she's doing the chores.

Anyway, the answer might be to only run one appliance at a time.
 
I would turn the power off to the whole house , unscrew the socket front and see if there are any burnt looking horrors in there .
If all looks good change the front of the socket for a new one . If all doesn’t look good may we seek further advice .
You can buy a 3 pin plug in socket tester for a few quid which will give a clue as to what’s happening
 
A 13a double socket should be capable of supplying power to both appliances - in theory - but it is under a greater element of thermal stress so may fail in time... ten years is not bad and the failure of one side first implies that the fault is the socket rather than the wiring... but if the cables are damaged as well the job might be bigger than just changing the socket front.

Using an extension lead is not recommended... especially a multiple outlet type. Two appliances on the extension would put a lot of strain on the one socket that the lead is plugged into.

A good local electrician should be able to carry out the necessary...
 
I would turn the power off to the whole house , unscrew the socket front and see if there are any burnt looking horrors in there .
If all looks good change the front of the socket for a new one . If all doesn’t look good may we seek further advice .
You can buy a 3 pin plug in socket tester for a few quid which will give a clue as to what’s happening
Lots of good advice already , but another comment : I have seen the screw terminals in the rear of power sockets work loose over periods of time , this can create a poor connection and generate heat .

For the sake of a tenner or whatever for a 2 gang socket , you’re as well replacing it anyway .

If you are looking at running both the washing machine and the dryer off the same socket , it would be better to add another socket into the ring , as said above to cut down on heat within the one plate .

The ring should be good for a total load of at least 32A , and should have an appropriate breaker in the consumer unit .

I echo what was said above , if not 100% sure , get a qualified electrician in .

I’m not one , but I did electrical engineering at Uni 45 years ago , so have a reasonable idea what I’m doing . Most of the time ... 😊
 
Sparkys run things that fit under counters off one fused spur these days and it's rubbish.

When we had the kitchen done 2 years ago the spark had run the dishwasher, washing machine and drier off the same fused spur. As he left he said 'I wouldn't run all three at the same time if I were you'. Just running two will burn out the spur, I'm on my fourth, the Mrs hates not being able to run all three when she's doing the chores.

Anyway, the answer might be to only run one appliance at a time.

Not all Sparkies.

As long as the fuse ratings are designed correctly and not amended by some one with a "that'll stop it blowing / tripping mentality" the circuit cabling is rated to take the load/s.

When a fuse or breaker trips it's doing its job and not creating a dangerous condition. Where that isn't strictly correct is where the socket has over heated due to the continuous load and has affected good contact with the plug. Here there is an increased chance of fire, due to continual overheating of the deteriorated socket.

Your failure of the washer or whatever is likely due to the socket being overheated and the contacts now being unreliable. But it really wants the wiring in the socket back box to be looked at closely to see if that has over heated also. Changing the socket is easy and DIY doable. Repairing the cabling is a little more involved.

I would assume that the socket in question is fed via a ring circuit. It may be that a Sparky has spurred off the ring to feed that socket. Strictly speaking if the cable is 2.5mm this doesn't comply with the regs, but this is a common install style. The feed cable should be rated to cope with 32 Amps, 2.5 T&E isn't.
When a spur supplies 2 heavy load items it carries all current. If this is a ring the current is shared between 2 cables. If the spur 'cable' is 4mm or greater is can handle the current better.

1 of the 2 outlets having failed would suggest that it's the double socket that needs replacing. Have a good look at the supply cable/s for discolouration though.
 
IIRC , you can only have one spur on any ring , other than from proper fused spur points down to one ( ideally ) unswitched 13A single gang socket .
 
IIRC , you can only have one spur on any ring , other than from proper fused spur points down to one ( ideally ) unswitched 13A single gang socket .

I'm not up to speed with the 18th Edition but in the 17th 50% of sockets off a ring could be spur circuits.
It was permissible to only spur to one socket, or if you spurred from a spur the intermediate socket would look like a ring, and some one might then spur from that.

If a radial circuit (spur) was desired from a ring to feed more than one socket, ie spur from a spur, then it was ok if that was fed via a fused unit, switched or unswitched. That radial would then have a max fuse rating of 13 amps.
Far better to keep all sockets as part of the ring, but with later add ons that can be more difficult.

In design it easy to see that kitchens will be the greater load of socket circuits (or perhaps a utility if there is a separate room). A separate circuit for that makes sense. The rest of the house doesn't take so much so it's not daft to have 'House' as one ring, but more convenient come fault time to have upstair / downstair as separate.
 
Had a similar problem on an upstairs socket. I bought a new switch and turned off the leccy. When I loosened the screws to remove the old switch, I did see that the screw holding the negative wire was loose. It may be as simple as that, 50hz frequency does loosen the screws. If not, a replacement double socket is only a few pounds, you will not need to replace the back box.
 
Sparkys run things that fit under counters off one fused spur these days and it's rubbish.

When we had the kitchen done 2 years ago the spark had run the dishwasher, washing machine and drier off the same fused spur. As he left he said 'I wouldn't run all three at the same time if I were you'. Just running two will burn out the spur, I'm on my fourth, the Mrs hates not being able to run all three when she's doing the chores.

Anyway, the answer might be to only run one appliance at a time.

Only a lazy/on the cheap spark who couldn’t be bothered running a new radial from the CU or even sepetate FCU’s from the kitchen ring would do that.
What you describe is safe enough if correctly installed, but limited to max design current of 13amp before popping the fuse in the FCU. Completely useless for the demands of modern kitchen. Really, you should have insisted on a dedicated 32amp ring from the CU for the kitchen, and dedicated radials from the CU for high demand stuff such as leccy cooker or hob with the correct sized cable and MCB’s.
 
There is a tendency to over tighten the clamp screws, they're only brass.
 
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Only a lazy/on the cheap spark who couldn’t be bothered running a new radial from the CU or even sepetate FCU’s from the kitchen ring would do that.
What you describe is safe enough if correctly installed, but limited to max design current of 13amp before popping the fuse in the FCU. Completely useless for the demands of modern kitchen. Really, you should have insisted on a dedicated 32amp ring from the CU for the kitchen, and dedicated radials from the CU for high demand stuff such as leccy cooker or hob with the correct sized cable and MCB’s.
I could have done as you said if I understood what you said.
 
@Mr. B
Does sound like the socket has just fatigued and given up on the contacts. I’ve seen under counter sockets arc when something has been pulled out (usually washer or a drier) to clean/get to the internal stop tap/maintenance/check the mousetrap etc. and has pulled on the plug slightly and caused resistance/heat as it arcs over time, melting the contacts as previously said.

Bear in mind multi gang extensions tend to only be 1mm, where as your kitchen ring likely be a 2.5mm ring (5mm altogether to/from CU) or a 6mm radial so you’ll get high resistance from the 1mm multi gang if high load. If all safety devices are correct though, it should break circuit and prevent fire.

In short, a good quality new socket plate should be all it requires.
As above, best advice is if ANY doubt, get a competent part p registered electrician 👍🏻
 
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I could have done as you said if I understood what you said.

True enough mate. That’s why we trust the professionals of their given field. Often, it seems ‘corner cutters’ are employed by kitchen installers, and they want the quick buck. Safe enough installs, just not bothered about the practicality of appliance use for the homeowners. Keeps the overall cost down too which makes it more attractive for the homeowner, but I’m sure if most realised they’d be left with a kitchen what pops a breaker/fuse when you flick the kettle on cos the tumblers on and the missus is ironing too, they’d happily pay that bit more for the convenience of a correctly functioning family kitchen.
 

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