Hopefully future owner of E270/E320 W211, advise needed

[Sve]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and I hope to become MB owner in next few days. Although nothing to compare, but to present myself. I'm 30 years old, long Astra driver and I was actually looking for get Civic 06/07, but then a friend of mine gave me this brilliant idea - to look for MB 03/04 plate. The moment I checked the prices and realized that I could have a car that I even didn't dreamed about.

What I'm looking for is either W211 E270/E320 Avantgarde, 03-04 plate. I really like the E class and Avantgarde modification. Except for the more options it more sporty car, but still a luxury car. Although the color and upholstery are not important I do prefer bright colors and not fully leather bodywork.

Never used MB before, I've done my homework and read a lot of thread at the forum, what should I be careful and look for:
- Pre 2004 models are not galvanized so rust could appear. Is this really a big problem, should I definitely look for 04 plate ?
- The dreaded Valeo radiator. Either repaired or having bher radiator. Read someone that was repaired after 9/2003.
- ATF should have been serviced at around 40k.
- Check that ALL the service bulletins have been carried out.
- Check for rust on the coil springs. Also be careful with airmatic springs.
- E320 has either I6 or V6, not sure which one is better, but I think someone mentioned that I6 is more economical. If it's 3222cc it's the straight 6, if it's 3000cc it's the V6. Never saw 3000cc on autotrader, all of them has 3222cc.
- Someone mentioned for problems with SBC (sensotronic brake control). What should I be looking for ?
- Electronic gremlins - check all electronics.
- The camshaft is chain driven so no cam-belt to change.
- Starting 2004 Avantgarde has LED rear brake lights.

Although I have few friend saying positive for E320, yet I hear contradictory opinions. I've been told by several people now to stay away from E320 for few reasons - more power which is not needed and higher service and maintenance costs in case it breaks. I really don't care about the power, coming from 1.8 Astra with 103 bhp surely I'll feel the E270 like a spaceship with its 177 bhp compared to E320 and its 204 bhp. Should I really look for E270 or as long as the car is serviced on time and properly there won't be such a problems.

I'm sorry for the spam that follows, if it's too much please ignore. I'll really appreciate comments on the my thoughts as well.

These are few E320 that I really liked:
1. That one is perfect, except it's 2003 (52 plate) so could suffer from few of the above symptoms, especially the galvanization. Costs £4000, not sure if it isn't sold yet:
Mercedes-Benz E Class E320 CDI Avantgarde 4dr Tip Auto 3.2 PANORAMIC ROOF+FSH 2003
2. Another one for which I really liked the look. Grey leather or some white colors are very well combined with this car:
Mercedes-Benz E Class E320 CDI Avantgarde 4dr Tip Auto Diesel Saloon 3.2 2003
3. That one is some kind of top class, looks really luxury with a lot of options and only one owner so far:
Mercedes-Benz E Class E320 CDI Avantgarde 4dr Tip Auto 3.2 PAN ROOF+KEYLESS ENTRY

And few E270:
1. Little bit more money, but E270 with log millage and 05 plate: Mercedes-Benz E Class E270 CDI Avantgarde 4dr Tip Auto Diesel Saloon 2.7 2005
2. A lot of money for 52 plate, but still looks good:
Mercedes-Benz E Class E270 CDI AVANTGARDE 4DR SEQ AUTO 2.7 2003
3. Well looked, low millage, 54 plate and reasonable price:
Mercedes-Benz E Class E270 CDI Avantgarde 4dr Tip Auto 2.7 1 F/OWNER 10 STAMP FSH

I think the last one of each really worth.

After all it's a lot of luck of course, but I would really appreciate your opinions and advises on that. I haven't look for long, but really want to get one as soon as possible.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Svetoslav

 

[ringway]

Welcome, Svetoslav.

Considering English isn't you mother tongue, that's an excellent and easy to read introduction.

You already have a good knowledge and have clearly done your homework well to date.

Stick with us and we will guide you through your search.



So many questions...


A couple of tips to start would be to avoid cars that could have been affected by the Valeo issue unless there is proof that the radiator change has been carried out properly. If you are in doubt, walk away or get a written guarantee for the gearbox if that's possible.

The I6 is more economical than the V6 but both are great engines. I've had both and can't choose between them.


Have a look in the classifieds on this forum. Most members are good people and wouldn't dare put a duffer up for sale here I shouldn't think.
Most people on MBClub are enthusiasts who maintain their cars to a good standard, and you can always have a look back through their posts to see what problems their cars have had in the past.

Good Luck.

 

[BQF]

If you buy an E Class W211, the springs ARE going to fail, and YOU WILL be left stranded. Upgrading all 4 springs costs less than £250, and imho must be done. Mine went bang 250 miles from home and recovery took 13 hours.

Other than that, they're great. My E270 got 700 miles to a tank, was incredibly comfortable, quick, and looked fantastic. I miss that car.

 

[Troon]

If you buy an E Class W211, the springs ARE going to fail, and YOU WILL be left stranded.

A little dramatic, perhaps. Coil spring failures are not uncommon in any car. I've had my E for two years and 40k miles now, and the original (6 years, 119k miles) front springs (air rear) are still fine.

V6 280 and 320 didn't come in until 2005 and replaced the I6 320 and I5 270, which is why you're only finding 3.2L I6s in your price / age bracket.

SBC is a very clever and advanced brake system (more here), fitted to the W211 from launch until the June 2006 facelift.

The only problem with it is that the pump is programmed to trigger a warning after a certain number of actuations, indicating that it should be replaced. MB would replace the pump free of charge until recently, but they won't now, and it'll cost you £1000 or more to change.

If you don't, it'll eventually fail, which will leave you with a very ineffective backup hydraulic circuit, with about 10% braking power.

It also makes brake fluid changes and other brake work a little more complex, but that's not a problem if it's understood.

In short, don't buy a car with brake warnings showing in the cluster. If you can find one with a recently-replaced pump, that might be a good thing.


I understand that the production line changed the wiring loom fitment from robot to human to remove some problems during 2004. Allegedly, cars with a "mesh" centre speaker cover are after that change, cars with a slatted cover are before - although if they're still running now, they're probably fine.

Oh, and if you want an audio-in 3.5mm jack socket, you'll need to get a car with COMAND navigation. The other audio options don't have this.

Good luck!

 

[joecash]

we have 3 mercs in our family and beleive it or not an "S" class would also be in your budget
The 3.2 Inline 6 diesel without dpf etc is, imho, far and away the best engine for fuel economy 42 mpg for the E320 cdi and around 38 mpg for the s class
my son's e280 3.0 litre V6 diesel does around 36 mpg
can't comment on the 270
I would go for full leather, sat nav and heated seats
take your time inspecting the car and the paperwork - if anything looks dodgy walk away
if you dont know much about mercs find a decent indy who will give it the once over for you as faults can be expensive to put right especially aircon, turbo and airmatic suspension problems

 

[Sve]

Thank you ringway for the kind words and advise. BQF thank you as well, I'll look if they were changed if not try to lower the price. There are so many cars offered at the moment, I'm still struggling whether it should be 2.7 or 3.2.

In short, does the cars 04/05 suffer from radiator problem, they are for sure galvanized, right ?

Thanks,
Sve

 

[Sve]

Oh boy, very good things to know. Thank you for spending time to bless the blind.

Troon, I'll check the papers and check if SBC pump was recently-replaced. I only missed should I stick with I6 or to look for V6 engine ? Also how can I say if it's a command navigation ?

Joecash, I'm too young to drive S class, maybe my next car I was initially looking for E320, but then I've been told by few people to stay away ... cost of service if it breaks and unnecessary more horse power.

The one I liked most so far Mercedes-Benz E Class E320 CDI Avantgarde 4dr Tip Auto Diesel Saloon 3.2 2004.
It has a decent millage, 53 plate, obviously I6 engine and looks really really good. Although I find panoramic roof kind of cool option as well, it brings a lot more of light inside the car.

Regards,
Sve

 

[Troon]

Troon, I'll check the papers and check if SBC pump was recently-replaced. I only missed should I stick with I6 or to look for V6 engine ? Also how can I say if it's a command navigation ?

Both engines are fine. The I6 is older and possibly more reliable.

COMAND in the W211 before 2009MY is the NTG1 unit. You'll find a picture of the similar S-Class version about halfway down this page:

http://www.mercupgrades.com/COMAND+++All+about+the+different+Mercedes+COMAND+systems-article-54.html

It has a DVD drive in the boot which holds the navigation disc.

 

[Sve]

Ah now I got it, thanks!

Regards,
Sve

 

[joecash]

it is important that the gearbox atf is changed every 40,000 miles or so - when you test drive, the changes through the gearbox should be hardly noticeable if at all.

 

[joecash]

oh and one more thing it is quite common for the thermostat to fail on these cars - £50 fix diy - temperature should be 92 degrees centigrade on the instrument panel or close to it - on your test run it should soon reach this - if it remains low then it will need changing as there will be around a 6 mpg penalty and of course increased engine wear

 

[Sve]

Thank you joecash, that's very good to know and I'll take a note for the test run.

Sve

 

[Sve]

Hi,

Reading on the forum I found a company selling only mercedes and indeed there is a good offer at the moment:
2004(04) MERCEDES E270 CDI AVANTGARDE SALOON 2.7 DIESEL AUTO SILVER

Troon, in regards to the COMAND navigation is it only about the audio and the sat-nav ? Said other way should I sacrifice the COMAND navigation for otherwise a good car as the one above ?

Any thoughts are welcome!

Thanks!

Regards,
Sve

 

[Troon]

Troon, in regards to the COMAND navigation is it only about the audio and the sat-nav ? Said other way should I sacrifice the COMAND navigation for otherwise a good car as the one above ?

Depends whether you "need" an audio in jack or not. The navigation itself is quite old-fashioned these days, and the update discs are expensive. I have it and like it, but the original option price was nearly £2k, so it's obvious why some cars don't have it.

Mercland in Nuneaton (your link) is highly regarded: Jay (the proprietor) is a forum member.

 

[Sve]

Well yeah, that's the point. I'll be doing mostly urban driving, but still I don't mind listen to great music on long trips. And yes, I'll definitely get a decent GPS navigation anyway. Thanks Troon, that answers my question.

About Mecland, that's why I posted it. Read a lot of (only) positive opinions about him and that makes me think it's worth.

Regards,
Sve

 

[prprandall51]

In 2004 they shut down the E Class production line to completely re-engineer how the car was built. One major change was to swap back to using humans to install the wiring loom instead of robots. The changes were is direct response to issues in cars built up to that date.

At the time, they made some cosmetic changes to the car, too; these act as a tell-tale so you can spot a car made after the line was re-engineered (I can't remember many of them but the most obvious is that the large central grille on the dash top switched from being a slatted plastic grille to a sheet of finely meshed metal).

I would personally seek out a car that post-dates that engineering change, regardless of engine size (they are both good engines), though there are obviously many on here with earlier cars that have found them to be perfectly reliable.

All cars built after the shut-down are galvanised (though that change happened sometime earlier) so that is one less thing to worry about.

I have a late 2004 car, owned from new, 90,000 miles, never broken down (though I have had a few electronics failures along the way). It has been an excellent car.

 

[Sve]

I spent whole week looking on autotrader and making phone calls. When I ask about some details of the service history I've been told that the car will go through inspection and MOT and gets what has to be fixed (if any). In regards to that I can't really say on which car the SBC pumps or Valeo radiator are replaced.

Essentially I'm looking only at 03/54 plates and really want to get one this weekend. The problem is that I don't have a car and I need to spend my whole weekend just to see one or two cars. Car location spans from 11 miles to 169 miles away from where I am (North London).

Apart from technical details what would you recommend when choosing between several cars. I know seeing them in person would be the best, but I'm not sure I'll have that luxury at all.

Thanks.

Regards,
Sve

 

[Troon]

I know seeing them in person would be the best, but I'm not sure I'll have that luxury at all.

That's not a luxury IMO, it's a necessity. Some cars of that age are shabby money pits, others are mint: and you can't tell which is which from the ads. If you really need a car now, get something cheap from the local paper (£500 Micra?) and use it to travel to the cars you're looking at.

 

[Sve]

Troon you're right, I didn't want to sound like that.

I'll pick one from the list and go and see it. Just to ask, should the parts replacement we are talking about be noticed in the service history ?

Don't get me wrong. I'm aware of the service costs, but I don't want to get the car serviced and parts replaced right after I buy it.

Regards,
Sve

 

[joecash]

That's not a luxury IMO, it's a necessity. Some cars of that age are shabby money pits, others are mint: and you can't tell which is which from the ads. If you really need a car now, get something cheap from the local paper (£500 Micra?) and use it to travel to the cars you're looking at.

+1 - far too much to go wrong with mercs and far too many dodgy dealers, never ever buy one on spec - even jay form mercland, who has an excellent reputation, would much rather people looked first, although some don't apparently!! once you finalise on one get an indy to check it out - better £50 or so than find out you have a £700 bill for discs and pads, £2000 or so because the aircon is clapped or a grand for a turbo or several thousand for a gearbox or engine - but then I'm past pension age and totally knackered!!