House purchase - choosing a surveyor, and structure/contents insurance

[BTB 500]

Any suggestions on picking a surveyor to give our prospective new house a good going over before we exchange contracts?

I've found the RICS website:

http://www.rics.org/

Which has various searches on it ... presumably I want "Chartered Building Surveyors"? Just pick one at random who is in the area? Any ideas welcomed! I'm assuming this will set me back £1000 plus (4 bed detached, Berkshire). It's been 21 years since I last bought a house

On insurance (structure and contents), presumably I want to steer clear of the policies being offered by my mortgage lender (Cheltenham & Glos)? Try Direct Line (I've got a car insured with them already)?

Edit: and payment protection insurance ... 50p per month per £1000 of mortgage (what I've been quoted) seems pretty steep.

Many thanks in advance!

 

[Flatflr]

Where about in Berkshire?

I used Marshalls in Newbury when I bought a house there, looked like they knew what they were doing. Cost looks abut right.

Nick

 

[BTB 500]

Where about in Berkshire?

I used Marshalls in Newbury when I bought a house there, looked like they knew what they were doing. Cost looks abut right.

Nick

Thanks Nick.

It's on the outskirts of Bracknell, there seem to be loads of surveyors in Windsor ... which isn't that far away.

 

[IanA2]

I may be wildly out here, but I've generally found that "full surveys" cost about £200 per £100.000, so £400 for a £200,000 house etc. That said, in view of the fairly cursory examination, "we don't lift carpets"...."we don't go onto the roof" etc etc, I view it as being more of an insurance policy, ie someone to sue in case it goes very wrong. Before anyone flames me (a surveyor maybe?) for this view, I remember negotiating a survey post purchase when the guy reduced his price:..."You've bought it now so there will be no insurance liability." For house/conts insurance, try Hiscox or NFU!!

 

[BTB 500]

Ah ... good idea - I have a policy with NFU too, so I will definitely give them a try.

 

[richard]

One thing to be careful of is that the building society will require a valuation (or more) by one of their approved surveyors, which is a relatively limited list in each area.

So, if you use an surveyor that is approved by your building society, they can do the valuation for them, and the homebuyers report, or full survey, or whatever you want, you can save yourself some money as its only one surveyor visiting ..

Cheers
Richard

 

[BTB 500]

One thing to be careful of is that the building society will require a valuation (or more) by one of their approved surveyors, which is a relatively limited list in each area.

So, if you use an surveyor that is approved by your building society, they can do the valuation for them, and the homebuyers report, or full survey, or whatever you want, you can save yourself some money as its only one surveyor visiting ..

Cheers
Richard

I asked about that, but the lady at C & G was doubtful as they don't know who does the valuation - it's all outsourced to an agency. So I get to pay £450 for someone to go and say "yes, it exists" (AFAIK that's about it as far as the valuation goes), then £1000+ for someone else to visit the same house

But ... presumably a surveyor would be able to value, but a valuer might not be qualified to do a full survey?

 

[guydewdney]

I got spanked - 1500 quid on a survey (on a 670K property) that didnt get the rot in the roof, the woodworm (serious), "four manhole covers on the land" (I counted nine)... didnt include the outbuildings.... But DID include 12 pages of cut-n-paste from the building regs pages.

Need I go on? No - Im sueing the b*****d to get my money back, and compensation for the remidial work needed.

On my discovery of the horrors, I phoned the RICS, who told me to "go through the complaints procedure" - and if they "follow the correct procedure, there is nothing they can do" - so what the hell is the point (from a punters point of view) of the RICS????

Theres one or two surveyors on here.... I hope to god they arnt as incompetant as the idiot I managed to employ.

Fingers crossed for you - but to be honest - finds yourself a good mate whos into buildings (landlord/developer/investor etc) and ask them to have a dmn good look - buy them a damp meter heres an expensive one at 40 quid and get their opinion....

</cynic mode off>

They are all lovely... honest....

 

[Rory]

The surveyor must have liability if he doesn't pick up faults.

My current house had what I believe is called 'blown' plaster. A builder friend noticed it and said 'you should have had a full survey, not just a valuation'. Galling thing was, we did!

The report was ridiculously superficial - 'the garage roof might need replacing, the wiring might need replacement' etc etc. Made a huge thing about a downspout having come apart (it popped back together again).

It got a bit complicated as at first the surveyor said they were acting for the building society, even though they (the surveyor) had sent us enagagment forms to sign. Our solicitor sent them a nice letter and the boss surveyor came round and went a funny colour. They paid to have the house extensively replastered, but we could have done without the disruption.

 

[richard]

Remember theres lots of types of survey, these are ones I have had done in the past

1) Valuation - just values the house
2)Home Buyers Report - a bit more expensive, picks out the obvious and slightly less (like the mud around the house is too close to the damp course, suggest you remove plants growing on the walls as it keeps walls wet etc) - most people assume this is a full survey, its really not.
3) Structural Survey - looks much more at the building, roofs etc

3 doesnt include an electrical survey (for instance) which I had done on this house seperately, which identified some work that needed doing. Also wont check services (sewage, water etc) - again seperate reports if you want that done (by qualified specialists)

4) Environmental Survey - this can be done online cheaply, just looks at history of flooding, local waste displosal etc - my sollicitor did this on-line - no visit required.

And of course, all of them are full of disclaimers and written in what I call 'wriggly words' (i.e to help reduce their liability)

I'd always do (2) or (3) and (4). Building society requires (1). I've never had an issue getting the building societies surveyor to do (2) or (3), because they have to contact you or the estate agent to arrange access, so you can find out who they are a day or two before they come.

Cheers
Richard

 

[jeremytaylor]

If the house is not that old (and most of Bracknell isn't that old), hasn't had major alterations and you're not planning major alterations, as a chartered surveyor, I would suggest a Homebuyer Report. This will tell you all you should need to know but will be cheaper than a full Building Survey.

The surveyor will still go in the roof, check for structural movement, dampness, condition of all main elements (roof coverings,roof structure, wallls, joinery, etc.). In both types of report, services are given a visual check only, and if further tests are required this will be reported.

I would expect you would need to pay £600 + VAT for a Homebuyer Report and £800 + VAT for a full Building Survey. And PI insurance is a requirement for all chartered surveyors. The thing to remember is that a 100% inspection of a house is rarely possible whilst someone is living in it - things like fitted floor coverings, fitted kitchens, wardrobes etc. get in the way a bit!

 

[guydewdney]

OK - thanks for that Jeremy - but (sorry to ask your opinion on here) - would access to a loft (via a proper hatch) be excluded due to a bed being in the way - with the vendor (and healthy 30 yr old sons) being present and willing? I feel not.

it was a BS not a HR...

Sorry to hijack the thread....

 

[BTB 500]

If the house is not that old (and most of Bracknell isn't that old), hasn't had major alterations and you're not planning major alterations, as a chartered surveyor, I would suggest a Homebuyer Report. This will tell you all you should need to know but will be cheaper than a full Building Survey.

The surveyor will still go in the roof, check for structural movement, dampness, condition of all main elements (roof coverings,roof structure, wallls, joinery, etc.). In both types of report, services are given a visual check only, and if further tests are required this will be reported.

I would expect you would need to pay £600 + VAT for a Homebuyer Report and £800 + VAT for a full Building Survey. And PI insurance is a requirement for all chartered surveyors. The thing to remember is that a 100% inspection of a house is rarely possible whilst someone is living in it - things like fitted floor coverings, fitted kitchens, wardrobes etc. get in the way a bit!

That's excellent, many thanks for the advice.

 

[jeremytaylor]

OK - thanks for that Jeremy - but (sorry to ask your opinion on here) - would access to a loft (via a proper hatch) be excluded due to a bed being in the way - with the vendor (and healthy 30 yr old sons) being present and willing? I feel not.

it was a BS not a HR...

Sorry to hijack the thread....

On a Building Survey, the roof space must be inspected where this is possible. My opinion is that it would be perfectly reasonable to expect the surveyor to move the bed to gain access to put his ladder in place, assuming this was possible (i.e. it wasn't an antique 4-poster, fixed piece of furniture etc.). Hell, couldn't he have stood on the bed to help gain access? (Health & Safety permitting).

 

[Shude]

I had a "homeliars report" carried out and it was a joke, bearing in mind it costs about twice what the basic valuation was quoted as and it still only took the guy about 45 minutes.

He failed to find the stop-tap for the water (it's under the kitchen sink) he said he couldn't go in the loft due to H&S and he made a big song and dance about some asbestos that would require specialist contractors to remove (12" square tile that I took to the tip in a carrier bag, they were very happy to launch it into their asbestos bin).

Every comment was followed with a disclaimer and TBH it basically told me nothing I didn't already know.

Also, unless you live in lincolnshire or somewhere else either stupidly flat or next to a river don't bother with the drainage report! £40 well spent there...

 

[guydewdney]

stop tap? What stop tap? Theres no mention of that.... or of the other 5 man hole covers that were not opened on the land, let alone mentioned....

had the wood worm dude out today - the place is riddled - and will cost me over a grand to spray... let alone anything else...

apologies again btb500...

Can you tell Im a little peeved

 

[jeremytaylor]

I had a "homeliars report" carried out and it was a joke, bearing in mind it costs about twice what the basic valuation was quoted as and it still only took the guy about 45 minutes.

He failed to find the stop-tap for the water (it's under the kitchen sink) he said he couldn't go in the loft due to H&S and he made a big song and dance about some asbestos that would require specialist contractors to remove (12" square tile that I took to the tip in a carrier bag, they were very happy to launch it into their asbestos bin).

Every comment was followed with a disclaimer and TBH it basically told me nothing I didn't already know.

Also, unless you live in lincolnshire or somewhere else either stupidly flat or next to a river don't bother with the drainage report! £40 well spent there...

This is sad reading for a chartered surveyor. I don't know how big/small old/new your house/flat is, but 45mins sounds way too quick. I would allow double that as a minimum. I tend to find that the longer you look, the more you find. Assuming your loft access is 'normal', there is no reason why he/she should not have gone up - read the T&Cs of the report!

On the asbestos, he/she was only reporting what the law says - if you chose to do otherwise, that's up to you, but you can hardly criticise the report!

 

[BTB 500]

On the other part of my original question, the various insurance policies (structure, contents, repayment protection) offered by C&G did turn out to be outrageously expensive compared to Direct Line etc. (as I expected). Funnily enough there was something in the paper next day saying that the main lenders were to be investigated by the office of fair trading (?) for ripping people off on insurance policies related to the mortgages they sold!

 

[BTB 500]

I've never had an issue getting the building societies surveyor to do (2) or (3), because they have to contact you or the estate agent to arrange access, so you can find out who they are a day or two before they come.

I've hit a blank wall on this.

C&G say it's "not policy" to allow valuation plus survey/report to be done together. They state that they have their own valuers who aren't necessarily qualified to do surveys.

The estate agent says at least of 50% of C&G valuations arranged on their properties include a homebuyer's report ... but this is always arranged with the surveyor before they contact the agent to get access to the property?!

Estate agent reluctant to get the valuer/whatever from C&G to call me in case this delays things.

Looks like I'm going to have to pay for two people to go to the house