How German cars beat British motors - and kept going

[wemorgan]

I'm sure forums have done this topic to death, but it's still an interesting read.

BBC News - How German cars beat British motors - and kept going

Das Auto: The Germans, Their Cars And Us will be broadcast on BBC Two at 9pm on Sunday 4 August and will be available on the BBC iPlayer.

 

[Paul/]

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/ot-off-topic-forums/156677-tv-one-planner.html

 

[wemorgan]

Thanks. I did have a quick search for another thread, but look beyond the thread titles. At least the article I posted was new

* feel free to merge the threads. Thanks

 

[Motorvating]

I read a report on it in one of the News Papers. Interesting but selective in its detail i.e. no mention of the allies rebuilding Germany providing brand new industries and tooling whilst the UK was burdened with the war loans and very old industries and tooling. It spoke about the the different relationship between Unions and management, but failed to recognise both the unions and management had no choice, they were as low as they were going to get, and if they didn't reinvent a new relationship away from the master and servant relationship, they would fail. It was interesting to see the report recognised the failures of British industry, laying the blame, and quite correctly with politicians, management, unions and the workers instead of just unions as most our media like to tell us.
You have to wonder what our politicians were thinking when they put old men who should have long retired in charge of our car industry (BL) nothing aginst old men, age is fast looming upon myself, but once in your 70's it is time to let younger people with new ideas to take the helm, and I was gobsmacked that every Mini produced was at a loss of £30 which was a lot of money in the 60's.

 

[markjay]

I find the article somewhat biased, it is essentially blaming the Unions.

It does touch on a range of other issues, including complacent management, but it seems the author is convinced that 'work ethics' is at the core of the issue.

 

[Motorvating]

I find the article somewhat biased, it is essentially blaming the Unions.

It does touch on a range of other issues, including complacent management, but it seems the author is convinced that 'work ethics' is at the core of the issue.

Which article did you read/ the one I read laid the blame all around.

 

[grober]

One aspect I feel was not brought out enough in that fairly well balanced BBC article was the fact that car production is essentially a mass production process dating back to Henry Ford. As such automation plays a very important part in productivity. One has only to compare footage of 3 guys struggling to install a windscreen by hand with today's pneumatic robotic handler inserting same with unmatched degree of precision in a fraction of the time. An unfair comparison perhaps but illustrates that often worker productivity is essentially limited by the tools at his disposal rather than the effort he puts in especially in a mixed automated/manual input environment. Which brings us to the relationship of productivity to investment. For many years Germany had very strict controls on investments outwith their own country. Essentially any external /outward investment had to be matched by equal internal investment in their home industries. Perhaps this played a part?

 

[markjay]

Which article did you read/ the one I read laid the blame all around.

I think that the apportioning of blame is not even-handed.

The article says that ten days were lost in Britain to Industrial Action for each day lost in Germany, and that by the time Margaret Thatcher came into power it was too late.

This seems to me like a subtle suggestion that the author believes the Unions were out of control and needed someone to 'sort them out'.

But maybe I am reading too much into it.

 

[Teflonso]

I think that the apportioning of blame is not even-handed.

The article says that ten days were lost in Britain to Industrial Action for each day lost in Germany, and that by the time Margaret Thatcher came into power it was too late.

This seems to me like a subtle suggestion that the author believes the Unions were out of control and needed someone to 'sort them out'.

But maybe I am reading too much into it.

I'm tickled by the suggestion that Margaret Thatcher had any inclination to save manufacturing industry. If she'd got in sooner, the curtain would have fallen even earlier.

 

[LTD]

For many years Germany had very strict controls on investments outwith their own country. Essentially any external /outward investment had to be matched by equal internal investment in their home industries. Perhaps this played a part?

Post 1945, German fiscal prudence was well known. It was a great model, only stalled when the Berlin Wall was brought down and the unification process implemented.

I was recently in Italy and my main comment to SWMBO was how much basic industry was evident.

Sadly lacking in the UK. Our import strategy is not a good one.

 

[Deleted member 11979]

Post 1945, German fiscal prudence was well known. It was a great model, only stalled when the Berlin Wall was brought down and the unification process implemented.

I was recently in Italy and my main comment to SWMBO was how much basic industry was evident.

Sadly lacking in the UK. Our import strategy is not a good one.

Italy is all but bankrupt

 

[Parisien]

Italy is all but bankrupt

It appears that way, but quite a black economy in evidence, hidden wealth, lack of honesty and paying your taxes, national traits I fear!


P

 

[Tiff]

You have to wonder what our politicians were thinking when they put old men who should have long retired in charge of our car industry (BL) nothing aginst old men, age is fast looming upon myself, but once in your 70's it is time to let younger people with new ideas to take the helm, and I was gobsmacked that every Mini produced was at a loss of £30 which was a lot of money in the 60's.

They said on the programme that the Mini was £350? I'm sure the Mini was launched at £496? Interesting hour for me, as I've spent a lot of time over there and have visited a few factories, but their home market is changing too- when I were a lad, you saw nothing but VW, Mercedes and Audi, but now its a real mix just like here.

The thing that really rang true, and the presenter repeated almost word for word what I've been saying for years to anyone who'd listen, that engineers and mechanics there really are respected, whilst here you are nothing. If you have pride in what you create, you will create it better.

 

[Parisien]

But it wasn't always that way, the great 19th century engineers were revered, when did all of that change and why?

 

[Londonscottish]

But it wasn't always that way, the great 19th century engineers were revered, when did all of that change and why?

They all took the cash, bought country houses, learned to ride and sent their kids to the poshest school they could find.

I read an interesting book about this called "The English Country House Syndrome" or something.

 

[markjay]

Italy is all but bankrupt

Italy's economy is an odd one. They have a special financial police force with armed and uniformed officers travelling in marked patrol cars, and one of the largest black economy in Western Europe.