Hydrogen Lorry?
- Thread starter SmartAmg
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Rpp999
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Perfect unit for Ironman.
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SmartAmg
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ChipChop
MB Enthusiast
Bears a striking resemblance to Clarksons Renault Magnum truck.
3dwarehouse.sketchup.com
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Looks like something's out of Judge Dredd.
D
Deleted member 113659
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Breaker 1-9 breaker 1-9 RubberDuck.
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Cylon! Battlestar galactica.....
Gazwould
MB Enthusiast
Fcuk .
Tonygw
MB Enthusiast
Yes it looks way better than Elon musks battery van..
Hydrogen is the future I have been saying it for a long time.. I hope Mercedes start making their cars run on hydrogen to, instead of AA batteries.. ;-)
Hydrogen is the future I have been saying it for a long time.. I hope Mercedes start making their cars run on hydrogen to, instead of AA batteries.. ;-)
D
Deleted member 126969
Guest
I can certainly see the value of hydrogen for trucks , trains and boats, but only if the stuff can be produced sustainably. At present, the vast majority is made from cracking gas, and itās not at all efficient, let alone sustainable. Electrolysis is very energy intensive as well as difficult/dangerous, so itās going to be a while before H2 is likely to be a mass-market fuel/energy store. The infrastructure will need building too of course.
Flyinspanner
MB Enthusiast
Ammonia powered boats are to be trialed, better energy density.
Tonygw
MB Enthusiast
Efficiency and energy aside and from a purely consumer prospective, hydrogen or similar would be the only technology I could see going into mass production, mass adoption, purely down to the fact that the whole process of vehicle ownership and convenience would be very similar to running a conventional vehicle.
ie you fill the vehicle up, drive, run out of fuel, refill quickly and repeat.
I cannot see how people on mass will adopt battery vehicles given the perceived inconvenience of limited range and long charge times coupled with massive lack of infrastructure. I know infrastructure doesn't yet exist for Hydrogen filling stations. But it is possible to convert conventional petrol stations to petrol/diesel/hydrogen filling stations. People could drive in, refill drive out. Putting charging stations into petrol stations will not work as people drive in to charge and 1-2 hours later drive out, Imagine the queue??
The majority of the population simply want convenience from their vehicles, that's their idea of ownership, the don't care about the vehicle or what it can do. But they don't want to be spending hours recharging, when they need to get to aunties for dinner...They want to refill and get there.
I think the car makers know this to. Battery vehicles are great for the percentage of population who can afford them but for mass I struggle to see them working unless some new instant charge batteries are developed.
Interesting times ahead..
ie you fill the vehicle up, drive, run out of fuel, refill quickly and repeat.
I cannot see how people on mass will adopt battery vehicles given the perceived inconvenience of limited range and long charge times coupled with massive lack of infrastructure. I know infrastructure doesn't yet exist for Hydrogen filling stations. But it is possible to convert conventional petrol stations to petrol/diesel/hydrogen filling stations. People could drive in, refill drive out. Putting charging stations into petrol stations will not work as people drive in to charge and 1-2 hours later drive out, Imagine the queue??
The majority of the population simply want convenience from their vehicles, that's their idea of ownership, the don't care about the vehicle or what it can do. But they don't want to be spending hours recharging, when they need to get to aunties for dinner...They want to refill and get there.
I think the car makers know this to. Battery vehicles are great for the percentage of population who can afford them but for mass I struggle to see them working unless some new instant charge batteries are developed.
Interesting times ahead..
D
Deleted member 126969
Guest
Thereās been a long and typically acrimonious ādiscussionā of this topic on PH and like so many things, there seem to be two very polarised opinions.
Taken purely in the simplest terms, yes, H2 could be a great alternative to petrol.....but only for two reasons the ability to top up quickly and energy density. every other aspect of it is problematic to varying degrees. Generation is one big problem to solve. Electrolysis requires a lot of power. Alreayd we hear constant talk of how the grid wonāt cope with battery EV. Thatās not true, but it certainly wouldnāt cope with requirement to provide for 3 times the energy needed if you replaced charging batteries with making H2.
You could convert petrol forecourts to H2 filling, but itās not that much easier or cheaper than putting in EV charging. If you go with local electrolysers you need pretty much the same electricity supply as you would for EV charging, so no gain there.
H2 is a much more potentially dangerous product to deal with, yes, of course, it is already dealt with in large quantities industrially but it requires a great deal of care. Not saying thatās a show stopper, just that itās a factor to consider carefully.
Any HFC vehicle needs at least some battery (or super-capacitor) anyway to accommodate transient demands and for energy recovery.
The benefit in terms of energy density is significant for commercial use I think. With current battery tech, itās hard to see the sense in a BEV truck. Short range vans, yes, but not long haul stuff.
Meanwhile, battery tech rolls on, getting more energy dense and quicker to charge. I doubt itāll ever get quick enough to charge as fast as filling a tank with gas or liquid in any repeatable practical way, but itāll certainly get to the point where you can put significant extra range back in in a very short time, should you need to.
I wouldnāt expect HFC vehicles to be any cheaper than BEV tbh, they are complicated beasts, filled with exotic materials. Current offerings arenāt really any guide as they are so few and far between and very likely the true costs are hidden as they try to gain a foothold.
I suspect the truth will be a mixture of HFC, BEV, ICE with each finding itās natural niche.
Taken purely in the simplest terms, yes, H2 could be a great alternative to petrol.....but only for two reasons the ability to top up quickly and energy density. every other aspect of it is problematic to varying degrees. Generation is one big problem to solve. Electrolysis requires a lot of power. Alreayd we hear constant talk of how the grid wonāt cope with battery EV. Thatās not true, but it certainly wouldnāt cope with requirement to provide for 3 times the energy needed if you replaced charging batteries with making H2.
You could convert petrol forecourts to H2 filling, but itās not that much easier or cheaper than putting in EV charging. If you go with local electrolysers you need pretty much the same electricity supply as you would for EV charging, so no gain there.
H2 is a much more potentially dangerous product to deal with, yes, of course, it is already dealt with in large quantities industrially but it requires a great deal of care. Not saying thatās a show stopper, just that itās a factor to consider carefully.
Any HFC vehicle needs at least some battery (or super-capacitor) anyway to accommodate transient demands and for energy recovery.
The benefit in terms of energy density is significant for commercial use I think. With current battery tech, itās hard to see the sense in a BEV truck. Short range vans, yes, but not long haul stuff.
Meanwhile, battery tech rolls on, getting more energy dense and quicker to charge. I doubt itāll ever get quick enough to charge as fast as filling a tank with gas or liquid in any repeatable practical way, but itāll certainly get to the point where you can put significant extra range back in in a very short time, should you need to.
I wouldnāt expect HFC vehicles to be any cheaper than BEV tbh, they are complicated beasts, filled with exotic materials. Current offerings arenāt really any guide as they are so few and far between and very likely the true costs are hidden as they try to gain a foothold.
I suspect the truth will be a mixture of HFC, BEV, ICE with each finding itās natural niche.
Tonygw
MB Enthusiast
I think your right there,
Its strange times and I do have a tiny tiny bit of sympathy for the auto industry,
They are gambling on what technology will prevail. The Eco protestors are causing governments to listen, governments haven't a clue but they know they need to reduce local vehicle emissions.
Vehicle manufacturers have started to develop and produce battery vehicles as its by far the easiest technology to develop and also keep governments, Eco warriors quiet.
But they know there are major hurdles to overcome and the main stream has yet to be convinced by battery cars etc.... They know they could easily convince people into hydrogen cars but there are still hurdles to overcome including the infrastructure issue (although Germany is way ahead in the number of hydrogen filling stations than any other UK/EU country at around 100 so far) H2.LIVE: Hydrogen Stations in Germany & Europe .
So yes for the next few years we will see a good mix of technologies and maybe one day one will become the main adopted tech for the masses..
Its strange times and I do have a tiny tiny bit of sympathy for the auto industry,
They are gambling on what technology will prevail. The Eco protestors are causing governments to listen, governments haven't a clue but they know they need to reduce local vehicle emissions.
Vehicle manufacturers have started to develop and produce battery vehicles as its by far the easiest technology to develop and also keep governments, Eco warriors quiet.
But they know there are major hurdles to overcome and the main stream has yet to be convinced by battery cars etc.... They know they could easily convince people into hydrogen cars but there are still hurdles to overcome including the infrastructure issue (although Germany is way ahead in the number of hydrogen filling stations than any other UK/EU country at around 100 so far) H2.LIVE: Hydrogen Stations in Germany & Europe .
So yes for the next few years we will see a good mix of technologies and maybe one day one will become the main adopted tech for the masses..
