Hydrogen power internal combustion engines

[Tonygw]

Some good progress being made by Toyota and JCB, UK. There is hope for us petrol heads, Zero emissions internal combustion engine.... nice.. Maybe one day the V8 will be king again, powered by hydrogen....And we will become know as Hydrogen heads instead of petrol heads? LOL

Toyota's 'hydrogen engine' car roars through 24-hour enduro

Technology utilizes conventional gasoline engines but faces hurdles to adoption

asia.nikkei.com

JCB unveils hydrogen-fuelled combustion engine technology | Autocar

JCB boss Lord Anthony Bamford says CO2-free piston engine could be a cheaper and quicker way to meet emissions targets

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[markjay]

The Autocar article says the new engine technology produces zero CO2 emission and very low NOx emission. So it's not really zero exhaust emissions. I guess it could be another stop-gap technology until everyone moves to EVs, but the obvious question is: is it worth the effort?

Also, it needs to get the same BIK rating as long-range pure EVs, or it won't take-off commercially.

 

[Tonygw]

Toyota have a 1million people employed in Hydrogen technology, and JCB see this as the future since EV machines don't really work in the real world (see their you tube video with Harry's garage, very interesting stuff). So I guess they both think its worth it. I do to

 

[Tonygw]

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[markjay]

...EV machines don't really work in the real world...

I what way? From the user perspective at least, all of the Tesla owners I spoke to are extremely satisfied.

(Not a Tesla fan myself, BTW, but for them the concept seems to be working just fine)

 

[markjay]

Toyota have a 1million people employed in Hydrogen technology, and JCB see this as the future...

I think that there's a difference between extracting energy from Hydrogen by combining it with Oxygen and turning it into water vapour, and burning it in an ICE engine...?

 

[Tonygw]

I what way? From the user perspective at least, all of the Tesla owners I spoke to are extremely satisfied.

(Not a Tesla fan myself, BTW, but for them the concept seems to be working just fine)

JCB explain it well in the video. They dont see a future in EV machines, charge time run times in the real world. when a job has to be done just isnt practical like a conventional easy 5 minute refuel of an ICE engine. Imagine a building site needing a machine digging foundations for 12 hours continuous, an EV machine can run for 2 hours and then needs a 4 hour recharge, just doesn't work.

 

[Chrishazle]

When you think of what is needed to build batteries for EV's, then what can be done when they reach the end of their useful life, compared to the possibility (currently being tested) of sourcing the hydrogen using renewable energy sources, plus the speed with which a hydrogen powered vehicle can be refilled compared to the recharge time for an EV, I think hydrogen power is the sustainable way forward, EV's are just an interim fix. There are infrastructure challenges with both, but we've been transporting high pressure gas for decades, also converting cars to run on LPG, so I don't see the infrastructure problems of hydrogen as any more problemmatical than the infrastructure changes needed for EV's.

 

[markjay]

JCB explain it well in the video. They dont see a future in EV machines, charge time run times in the real world. when a job has to be done just isnt practical like a conventional easy 5 minute refuel of an ICE engine. Imagine a building site needing a machine digging foundations for 12 hours continuous, an EV machine can run for 2 hours and then needs a 4 hour recharge, just doesn't work.

My layman's view is that I have to disagree. Many factories and workplaces have electric vehicles and machinery that are being charged overnight and used during the day - the first time I've seen this was in an airport back in 1979..... machinery in outdoor construction sites might be the last one to be converted to EV, but in time they will. Even today, when starting a construction project in an urban area, what is the first step? To get the utility company to install water supply (for the cement). I am assuming that when cement was first invented someone might have said that it will never catch-on because 'where will you get the water from in a new construction site'. So possibly the future is both water and power supply as first steps. To my mind, JCB are sitting on a melting ice cube and won't admit it. But, as I said, this is only the my laymen's view.

 

[BPD07]

Toyota have a 1million people employed in Hydrogen technology, and JCB see this as the future since EV machines don't really work in the real world (see their you tube video with Harry's garage, very interesting stuff). So I guess they both think its worth it. I do to

You should clarify, they don’t work in the real world for commercial operations (yet). Guessing you must run one if you know they don’t work, but with respect to private cars and not withstanding driveways issues and caravan towing yada yada. EVs work well - I run an i3 and it’s the goto car for errands, shopping and bouncing around town. I’ve also ICE vehicles for longer runs, so it’s a compromise but they get filled maybe once a month/six weeks (once a quarter for the AMG) so all the short local runs are EV.

 

[Tonygw]

I what way? From the user perspective at least, all of the Tesla owners I spoke to are extremely satisfied.

(Not a Tesla fan myself, BTW, but for them the concept seems to be working just fine)

Yes I am not surprised, I haven't met anybody to date who bought an electric car and said it was crap, if I spent that much money, even if it was crap I will still sing its praises, otherwise I would look/feel like a right plonker.... same as anything really.

 

[Tonygw]

You should clarify, they don’t work in the real world for commercial operations (yet). Guessing you must run one if you know they don’t work, but with respect to private cars and not withstanding driveways issues and caravan towing yada yada. EVs work well - I run an i3 and it’s the goto car for errands, shopping and bouncing around town. I’ve also ICE vehicles for longer runs, so it’s a compromise but they get filled maybe once a month/six weeks (once a quarter for the AMG) so all the short local runs are EV.

That's pretty much it, they work perfectly well, as a second car only. I would like one for running errands etc but just couldn't justify the price at the moment.. But as a like for like replacement of my main car, I need as do most people, something i can refuel in the same time or less than it takes to refuel an ICE car. Ev's simply cant do that, so its a no for me.
Hydrogen cars in what ever guise they appear in, can. and so they would work and as a bonus would be virtually zero emissions (from the car). win win?

 

[markjay]

Yes I am not surprised, I haven't met anybody to date who bought an electric car and said it was crap, if I spent that much money, even if it was crap I will still sing its praises, otherwise I would look/feel like a right plonker.... same as anything really.

I beg to differ... we have a 2019 Model-X at work, we're happy with it, no issues there. It's on a business lease (as I expect most new Teslas are).

 

[Tonygw]

We looked at them for our sales fleet cars, but they just wouldn't work with the amount of stop starts and miles per day needed. Instead hybrids were the only viable option if our teams wanted to get home at night in a reasonable hour.

 

[whitenemesis]

I noticed Amazon now have a huge fleet of electric delivery vans in our area. Can't get more demanding than that surely?

 

[markjay]

We looked at them for our sales fleet cars, but they just wouldn't work with the amount of stop starts and miles per day needed. Instead hybrids were the only viable option if our teams wanted to get home at night in a reasonable hour.

Agreed, on long runs, e.g. travelling to a location 120 miles away, our Model-X has to take a break at one of the Tesla supercharger along the route. Half-our top-up is enough to complete the journey, but still it only makes sense if you also have a charger at home to charge it overnight after getting back. That said, most people won't be doing a daily 100+ mile commute... so ICE will preserve for a while for those who do lots of daily mileage.

 

[Tonygw]

Re-Amazon vans


LOL yes they have in my area to, one ran out of charge a few weeks back and blocked a car park for quite a few hours. Doh!

 

[markjay]

Running out of charge and running out of fuel have one thing in common - in both cases, you know it's coming well in advance. I only ever ran out of fuel as a new driver... you learn quickly

 

[Tonygw]

Yeah I guess the guy was probably quite embarrassed at the time. I was surprised as I am sure they would be on a set route and the distance calculated to ensure enough range, so either he got lost, there was an issue with the van, or he upset one of the planners in the office who planned a longer route for his charge.
The issue was getting enough charge back into it to get it back to the depot, it took a while.

 

[Benzowner]

Running out of charge and running out of fuel have one thing in common - in both cases, you know it's coming well in advance. I only ever ran out of fuel as a new driver... you learn quickly

But you can go to the garage and buy a gallon of fuel with a can, as yet you cannot buy a gallon of electric